Update on yesterday’s actions and that oil spill

So the day of mass actions has passed and there’s a useful list of what happened in this round-up blog post as well as loads of inspring and informative films over at climate camp tv.

There’s been plenty of debate (and mud-slinging) on the blog with the passionate arguments of outraged “law abiding taxpayers” being tackled by those who believe the protection of the planet is paramount and that the usual suspects of capitalism and the government are part of the problem, rather than the solution.

One particular issue that has caused outrage has the been ‘oil on the road’ story that appeared yesterday morning so it’s probably worth setting out Climate Camp’s position on this to hopefully clarify the situation.

The long and short of it is that having asked around, the Climate Camp media team don’t know anything about it and as of yet no one has taken responsibility for it. Furthermore, Lothian and Borders Police’s new release regarding yesterday’s actions does not directly connect the oil spill with Climate Camp. Read carefully and you’ll see that the paragraph about the oil spill makes no connection to the Camp, but rather passively states the Police’s involvement in dealing with a spill. The connection is implied with it being in a press release about the Camp but there’s no actual evidence presented to support this.

While some of the comments to the blog have suggested that the police claimed they traced the oil back to the Camp there has yet to be an official statement from the police on this and again no evidence presented.

People familiar with the way the police have handled Climate Camp and movements for social change in the past will be aware that a tactic often used by the police is to try to discredit us.

For example, ahead of the Climate Camp at Heathrow in 2007 police told the media that activists were planning on issuing bomb hoaxes to disrupt travel which wasn’t true.

Similarly the police told media that weapons were being confiscated from activists at Kingsnorth power station in 2009. Of course, these “weapons” included dangerous items such as toothbrushes, bike locks, solar charger cables and other every-day items (see the video above for more).

As ever, the media can be used to reveal the truth as well as conceal it.

124 Responses to Update on yesterday’s actions and that* oil spill*

Have a look at the police interview on BBC Reporting Scotland where they “stated” a trail of oil led them back to the camp.

I’d expect furtehrmore the L&B police will be fully investigating where this substance has come form and we will hear more in due course.

Due to the legislation set out in the road safety act, the police are duty bound to investigate this and will do so fully. To make further accusations at this time would be non-advisable which is why they’ve not directly linked it to the climate camp through their statement.

BUt no doubt, after a few3 complaints to L&B POlice, including mine they WILL fully investigate this incident.

As for passing it off as media/police spin, the police in L&B have handled themselves correctly in all of this and did what they said they would do whereas protesters linked to your campaign decided that peaceful protesting was not what they wanted.

idiosta on August 24, 2010
Just having a look at the press release again and notice that L&B police issue this statement on the oil spill:

A police spokesman said: ‘This was an extremely reckless and dangerous act which could have put many members of the public at risk.

‘It is a worrying trend, and a disturbing escalation in the activities of the protestors.’

That sounds to me like they are directly linking it to Climate Camp protesters.

Do yourselves a favour and condemn this stupidity, be it protesters who carried it out or not.

That there is good advice if you want to continue to be taken seriously.

idiosta on August 24, 2010
Congratulations you did it . Everyone I have spoken to thinks your protest was a total waste of time. i watched the news last night and was embarrassed at the behaviour of your group. Sling shots, super glue, oil spills, damage to property, disruption, harassment shall i go on. Your cause has been undermined by your behaviour . Innocent people have been put at risk , had their work interrupted, child care disrupted. Gee thanks, now go home grow up get a life a get lost. Ps before you leave your address and we’ll camp in your backyard and cause you the same disruption. What a waste of time energy! Its all bollocks!

ALL Bollocks on August 24, 2010
Your claims of not knowing about it does not mean your being in Edinburgh did not cause this. You actively encourage protesters to take actions as far as they see fit, and provide legal information to help them do so. You count on impressionable folk to listen to your encouragement to do things like this as for that reason you are just as guilty.

Here, this is what actually happened, not like that PR bull you send out making it look like you are all peaceful earth loving people.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-11061661

I’m glad the majority of people see your organisation as it really is, and I hope they are able to get the £100,000 of spending wasted on policing your event from you. And I hope your organisation is closed down.

Stop denying it!! on August 24, 2010
well said! but do remember that the authorities work through forward intelligence which they gain from sources within the protesting group,the spin of oil in fact may have been part of a discrediting operation and it sells papers and increases funding.

resident on August 24, 2010
What a surprise. Complete denial, police conspiracy and all negative posters on this blog are gov. / police / hostile media plants. Get a grip you utterly pointless, irrelevant gobshite tossers. We have the means to effect change, use it and don’t want your self opinionated, fascist drones using this (or any other) excuse to market your dogmatic anarchy around our capital. Just fuck off.

Troll (Apparently) on August 24, 2010
Which bit of the following is your climate camp media team incapable of understanding

A police spokesman said: ‘This was an extremely reckless and dangerous act which could have put many members of the public at risk.

‘It is a worrying trend, and a disturbing escalation in the activities of the protestors.’

Sorry what other protestors were encamped around Gigarburn this weekend. To me that is saying one thing and one thing only about who the police are attributing this to, therefore once again another inaccurate press release from CC trying to paint yourselves in a good light and manage a situation you now have no control over.

The story is not unraveling, its growing and the people of Edinburgh know exactly who to blame for putting their lives at risk on their main roads.

Such a pity the climate camp refuses to accept any responsibility. Head in the sands perhaps or simply a symptom of the spin and hypocrisy that has surrounded your protests all week.

Pete on August 24, 2010
Big wow you managed to close some RBS branches for a few hours I’m sure that made a huge dent in RBS operations not. In terms of closing their HQ again no real impact to RBS as their contingency arrangements kicked in.

Well done to the Police, Local Authority and RBS for showing these bastards for what they truly are…thugs!

We did it my arse on August 24, 2010
Anyone who feels like making a formal complaint to Lothian & Borders Police with regards to what/who caused *that* oil spill yesterday can do so here:

http://www.lbp.police.uk/contact/index.asp

I will be sending mine off in due course. Be sure to thank them for their efforts and not to blame the climate camp directly but ask that the incident is fully investigated; whilst all efforts are made to bring the people responsible to justice.

idiosta on August 24, 2010
You have achieved the opp of what you set out to achieve. RBS have more support than ever.
You have wasted police time, that LBP cannot afford to have wasted. And you have stopped the normal, working, tax paying, law abiding citizens of Edinburgh going about their normal working and weekend activities.
Shame on you all! What an example you have set to those kids you have with you, put them into school so they can get an education and live in a real world not like the one you guys live in.
Grow up, Get a life, get a job, and clean up and pay up for the mess you have left behind.

Ellie on August 24, 2010
Rita Chada – “A group went on to the site and tried to get into the building by breaking some windows.

“It was done in a controlled way, it wasn’t just mindless destruction.

Interesting concept – breaking and entering not being mindless destruction.

http://news.scotsman.com/news/Police-face-picking-up-the.6491012.jp

Stop denying it!! on August 24, 2010
Lothian and Borders Police revealed that officers also seized a number of dangerous weapons from campaigners, including mesh hammers and a coal chisel.

They also accused protesters of putting lives at risk, after they poured what is believed to have been vegetable oil or diesel onto two busy dual carriageways.

Edinburgh City Council had to use more than seven tonnes of grit to clean the A720 at Bankhead and the west bound A8, while Lothian Buses removed its vehicles from the roads for a spell.

A police spokesman said: “This was an extremely reckless and dangerous act which could have put many members of the public at risk.”

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/east-central/193523-rbs-staff-stay-away-as-gogarburn-clear-up-begins/

*that* oil spill did happen… and the police have not retracted their accusation that CC did it. So please stop denying it, there is no conspiracy here, just a bunch of mindless idiot Climate Campers. Own up and take responsibility.

Stop denying it!! on August 24, 2010
As an ordinary member of the public I’d like to say how disgusted I am at the complete waste of money this disgraceful protest has cost us taxpayers – probably as much as the rangers hibs match on Saturday – and express my outrage at the disgraceful antics of these ‘climate campers’ who seem to think it’s ok to break the law – and sometimes even windows! – just because they feel strongly about looming climate disaster.

I’d much rather pretend nothing’s wrong, keep watching telly and leave things to the politicians and banks – don’t you understand that they know a lot more than you or me and always get things right? Who do you think you are?

God, you lot remind me of those blacks in Alabama in the 1960s, causing police leave to be cancelled for their precious ‘civil rights’; or that bloke in china disrupting military manoeuvres by standing in front of a tank over some moan or other; or that Jimmy Reid and his sit in on the Clyde, what a waste of time that was..

You’re all just a bunch of selfish troublemakers – now fuck off and let me get back to moaning about wheelie bins and stupid shite like that on the internet at 3am while feeling morally superior but somehow, in a way i cant quite put my finger on, empty..

Colin on August 24, 2010
Still no photos or arrests regarding the ‘oil spill’?

Most odd, given all those police and Forward Intelligence Teams following the Climate Campers’ every move!

I’m sure somewhere there must be an evidence bag containing 1/2 lb of rice and a blown out weasel..

;o

Cliff Stoll on August 24, 2010
People annoyed at this mindless act of violence please can you complain to LBP on the link provided through my previous comment.

If its action that CC want then that’s exactly what they’ll get.

And as for evidence; if LBP are investigating then the smart people at CC will know they won’t disclose any publicly until their investigation is complete.

I would’ve thought a bunch of complete wasters with plenty of time on their hands should’ve figured this out by now.

;o

idiosta on August 24, 2010
Ok climate campers, time to go home as mummy and Daddy, will be waiting in the Chelsea tractor at the airport. Mind you don’t forget to pop into the festival and sing crap songs and some glue theatre. I see the caravan club have requested the site be listed in their good caravanning guide. Sorry they get permission first, keep it tidy and don’t vandalise the surroundings!!

Well done you broke windows lets hope you get the bill and those responsible end up at her majesties pleasure. Oil on the road that was clever. Pity as BP upstaged you earlier in the year. Superglued to the door of a branch now that really showed them how not to be so childish. My little boy said why are these bad people stopping mummy going to work? If a three year recognises what you were doing is wrong …think about it.

Like I said ALL BOLLOCKS !!

ALL Bollocks on August 24, 2010
what have you numptys actually achieved by doing this?? thats right absolutely nothing apart from costing the tax payers and residents of edinburgh thousands of pounds.twats

claire on August 24, 2010
Absolutely and utterly disgraceful! After reading some of the previous comments I would certainly hold the ‘Climate Camp’ completely responsible. They have actively encouraged people who are misfits in society and have a complete lack of direction in their lives to participate in what? pulic disorder and complete disregard for other law abiding citizens. You couldn’t really write a better script I bet RBS are eternally grateful for the publicity and increase in public sympathy – well done!

Elaine on August 24, 2010
yous have frighted and put residents and workers of edinburgh lifes in danger,go home and good riddence. lets hope they throw the book at the eco terroists at court today

steve on August 24, 2010
So you have to lie to make your argument. You will feel that was justified given your great cause. So did Stalin. You could have killed my family. You try and suggest there is no evidence for it. Others in your number claim it was a lunatic fringe, others still say the real violence is against the planet so the time for talking is over. Many of you will grow up. Many of the rest are anarchist nutters who have no real purpose in life except violence and strategic mayhem. All of Scotland wishes you godspeed to your next lentil party. You have damaged the cause you claim to care about.

Edinburgh taxpayer on August 24, 2010
I genuinely think most of the CC protestors are well meaning, and would not support the wanton act of a misguided individual. Someone out there knows who the person is who did the oil thing – tell the police or phone crimestoppers 0800 555 111. It was a stupid mistake and if they have an ounce of integrity and really care about their cause they will own up, apologise and take their medicine. Perhaps CC can redeem some credibility from this and distance themselves from an act that could have cost lives.

Voice of Reason on August 24, 2010
despite the best efforts of all within Climate Camp I think we have slipped up here. I have said in other blogs how disheartened I am becoming with the way we are going. Some people up there yesterday were not true environmentalists and I had to get hold of some of the younger ones, calimed to be students from Manchester to calm them down. Too much alcohol and led by some that I have not seen before at the Camp. Some I am afraid did come for a party and have lost the plot a little. We are meant to be saving the planet and not causing mindless vandelism like a G8 riot. Please keep it GREEN and not end up like this where we have made the wrong impression on the people of Edinburgh, to whom I apologise. There was some real good feel and space in the camp that went sour, the fun and focus is going away from what I came to many years ago. When we reconvene at our gatherings we must review how we move on. The Big Blue Wave won public support, unlike the Great Swoop and this years CC. Talk of direct action is not the way forward and does not seem to change the way the climate criminals think. Public support in large events that gets the imigination like the Wave does work!

Gandolph on August 24, 2010
At last some sense from within. Gandolph whoever you are do something with your campers………but not here. I think your colleagues time in court will send a message to keep out of Scotland, just a shame only a few got arrested and it should have been more. I am sickened by your mindless vandalism but more shocked that ‘educated’ people would post banners with the F word where children including mine could see. Whether treacle or oil you made a mess of our city, it was not the bankers you targetted who cleaned it up but the working class council workers at tax payers cost not that of RBS. Must have been fun, but would you like it at your house, even the ones you probably squat in. Look in the mirror Climate Campers you are not going to gain any support by such actions, use your educated brains, those that are not affected by the smell of canabis that also wafted around your actions. Take your arguement to the Government not the public and you will see you cannot change the corporate world. 300 people in your annual camp……wow!

Tommo on August 24, 2010
Well, at least 5 of them have had their first appearance in court:

http://deadlinescotland.wordpress.com/2010/08/24/five-climate-camp-protesters-appear-in-court/

I cannot understand how three of them have the gall to plead not guilty to breach of the peace when there’s photos of them looking smug (in one whilst an old lady is trying to get out of the branch) whilst glued together in a bank branch on this site!

Just in case, they disappear, I’ve forwarded a document with URL’s, downloads and timed and dated screenshots to the Fiscal’s office.

What a waste of taxpayers money – the Scottish Legal Aid Board will have to deny someone else assistance just because these wasters want their day in court.

Bring your toothbrushes…….

Edinburger on August 24, 2010
What a bunch of fannies!

Fuck off back to mummy and daddy and die, cunts.

Brian Jaffa on August 24, 2010
As someone supportive of many of the aims of Climate Camp, I agree that the actions of a minority of those attending Climate Camp were foolish & unhelpful. Actions such as breaking windows are completely self-defeating. Most people are inclined to want to believe that RBS and the authorities are on the side of good and that protesters are just irresponsible layabouts. Consequently the responsible, thoughtful and considered actions of the vast majority of climate campers can be largely undone by a minority whose irresponsible actions are eagerly reported by the press. These then provide a convenient excuse for others to dismiss the entire protest.

I agree that the need for substantial action on climate change and sustainability is urgent. I agree that the bankers and oil industry will only act in their own short-term self-interest and that they have considerable influence over media and politicians. However I think Climate Camp needs to clearly distance itself from the minority of protesters who don’t consider the implications of their actions if it is to help gather the support needed to enable meaningful positive change.

Paul on August 24, 2010
Sesame seeds, oil, Third World unicycles, or whatever it was on the road, all this ‘protest’ has done is alienate people with a modicum of commmon sense. Or independent thought.

The lesson here is you can’t bully people into supporting a cause. The tactics that you’ve deployed just piss people off. Simples really.

chims on August 24, 2010
In fairness to this site though, fair play to accepting critical comment. There’s many would have a delete capacity at point of posting.

chims on August 24, 2010
As an Edinburgh citizen broadly sympathetic to the Climate Camp and its aims, I don’t think this one can be counted as a success.

In fact, its main achievement has been something I did not think was possible – generating some public sympathy for RBS. That alone should lead to some serious re-thinking of tactics.

Inconveniencing the public is never a great idea – and that’s all letting off stink bombs in bank branches achieved. The thought in the back of everyone’s mind is “Hey, that could have been me (or partner, mum etc)in a hurry to deposit that cheque!”

And the oil/molasses/whatever slick on the road is a jaw-dropping own goal. Pretending it’s nothing to do with you when your website encourages acts of spontaneous law-breaking comes over as mealy mouthed. And blaming a police conspiracy strikes most people as laughable. Why not just say “We don’t know who did this but whoever it was is an idiot.”?

You can only succeed if people feel that you are on their side. Instead, you’ve managed to make people feel that they’re on RBS’s side. I think you need to take a long, hard look at how you managed to do that. For all our sakes.

Fellow Traveller on August 24, 2010
Well done Gandalph, the only person within the camp to tell it how it is.

Cavey on August 24, 2010
Yes well done gandolph for accepting the cc protest was not the right way to go about getting a point across. Finally good to see someone with some sense.

On another note, it’s good to see 5 protesters in court instead of getting these criminals get off Scott free.

Stop denying it!! on August 24, 2010
http://www.foe-scotland.org.uk/Edinburgh/

I will be emailing friends of the earth Edinburgh to ask them to condemn the actions of cc over the past week. If you also feel cc have been wreckless in their actions, please feel free to join me, let the residents of Edinburgh get their views across, peacefully, and hit cc where it hurts!

Stop denying it!! on August 24, 2010
Why couldn’t they have had a camp of education, public involvement and show us what is going on and why instead of th idiotic elements trying to ram it in everyones faces?

What about a happy camp? with professional level presentations in nice clean well organised settings? without all the “attitude”?

If they want people to stop banking with RBS in order to “green the banks” thye needed to win the customers, the vast majority of small businesses and famlies and charities and homeowners who make up the banks customer base. They’re who have the power to force change – by voting with their feet/wallets/custom.

That would take a lot more hard work, professionaism and knowledge of the audience to do though. I suspect Climate Camp mainly appeals to climate campers. Perhaps they need ot think about whose benefit this event was meant to be because while I’m sure they’re mightiliy pleased with themselves and all had a good time, as a business venture, it’s a total failure. If you want to sell an idea, you have to target your market, not sell what you think/know they want/need.

This is why so many people have such little respect for protesters, it is because while they may feel exceptionaly knowldgeable and informed and motivated to make change, they are remakably poorly informed and maladroit at dealing with the realities of life.

I will take climate camp seriously when I can sit in comfort in a clean tent and listen to/watch a professional level presentation from a clean and highly educated person who talks with passion and intellect about why I should buy their idea and who can provide me with good quality refreshments and answer my questions seriously and wihtout soundbites and most importantly, that I can rely on not to embarass me socially and professionally through being associated with them and their actions.

... on August 24, 2010
“http://deadlinescotland.wordpress.com/2010/08/24/five-climate-camp-protesters-appear-in-court/”

Hum, let’s see

“They were accused of stopping customers from entering the bank, chanting slogans and gluing themselves together in an attempt to block access to the bank.”

and

“Martin John Wallace, 58, from France, was detained as he tried to leave the Gogarburn site on Monday morning and charged with assaulting a police sergeant and rubbing nettles against a police officer’s arm.”

and

“Eleanor Smith, 24, also from London, denied charges of damaging property and graffiti-ing bins belonging to the bank on the Royal Mile.”

Wow!!! The crimes of the Century!!! Hanging is too good for them, flog them and shoot them!!!

Meanwhile someone was stabbed to death in Edinburgh yesterday and the trolls have had nothing to say about it. Get a sense of proportion.

John on August 24, 2010
“If you also feel cc have been wreckless in their actions, please feel free to join me,”

If you want them not to laugh at your email I suggest you learn how to spell reckless before typing your message.

John on August 24, 2010
Crimes nonetheless, particulary when taken in context. Which they will be. Obviously John is one of the “legal Advisor” solicitor wannabes

... on August 24, 2010
Incidentally, the kind of people that stab folk generally do not try to claim the moral high ground.

... on August 24, 2010
As someone who attended climate camp at the weekend, I’d agree that anyone who smashed windows or sprayed anything on roads should be held to account. Such actions are potentially dangerous and counter-productive.

It should be noted though that such actions were not representative of the wider climate camp. Media attention focuses on such actions, with relatively little mainstream media conveying the many well considered peaceful actions, the numerous thoughtful workshops or the generally open and welcoming atmosphere of the camp.

The actions of RBS should also be held to account. They are taking deliberate decisions to invest in risky and highly polluting oil projects in order to maximise bonuses. They are placing personal short-term gain ahead of the sustainability of our environment and the lifes of millions.

I agree that Climate Camp have made mistakes. I believe they should condemn poorly considered actions and should be more savvy with PR. RBS comes across more favourably in the media, but this is because they have millions available for professional PR representation and substantial influence on media as significant providers of advertising revenue.

Paul Morris on August 25, 2010
I live 10 minutes walk from Gogarburn so i all to well the disruption caused to everyday citizens.

I have emailed previously and made my main point but to put it in laymans terms…
do unto others as you would have done to you.

If you want to protest RBS and cause havock in that way you should accept if RBS want to protest back they can do it at your house or whereever, break your windows and POSSIBLY stop you from getting to work in the morning.
It was more bullying what happened than peaceful protest. You don’t see people coming up to you in the street, punching you and then asking you for a donation for the homeless…

Charlene on August 25, 2010
PS thankyou gandolph for trying to stop the mindless idiots taking over and i respect that you clearly understood what was meant to happen

Charlene on August 25, 2010
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/scotland/Anarchy-in-Edinburgh-as-climate.6490533.jp

That came out yesterday. As a note to the person who wrote the original artical look at all the pieces of the jigsaw and determine why all information points to people involved in campaigning.

Charlene on August 25, 2010
“Crimes nonetheless”

According to the article

“stopping customers from entering the bank, chanting slogans and gluing themselves together”

I’m not sure they stopped anyone entering the bank, I have seen a photograph of someone squeezing under their arms, but they certainly made it difficult. A crime? Possibly, the law is badly written and all sorts of things can be illegal if the authorities want them to be.

Chanting slogans and glueing themselves together are crimes? If they are they shouldn’t be.

“assaulting a police sergeant and rubbing nettles against a police officer’s arm.”

Sounds like a crime on the face of it. However, we don’t know what this “assault” is claimed to have been and what led up to it. Quite often the police put huge spin on events to try and justify their actions. They will be keen to put this before a sheriff to avoid a trial where all the facts will emerge.

“damaging property and graffiti-ing bins”

Sound like crimes to me, though I haven’t heard the other side. Hardly crime of the Century though, which is what some are implying.

John on August 25, 2010
John, they were probably stabbed because all our police were not patrolling on their normal places because they had to police cc.

Stop denying it!! on August 25, 2010
‘I’m not sure they stopped anyone entering the bank, I have seen a photograph of someone squeezing under their arms, but they certainly made it difficult. A crime? Possibly, the law is badly written and all sorts of things can be illegal if the authorities want them to be.’

I would not be a happy member of the public if someone i didnt know grabbed my arm at all! Its invading personal space and although it might not be illegal it’s extremely rude. If you are allowed to protest your opinion then people who need to use their bank should be left alone.

Charlene on August 25, 2010
Paul Morris – your post is far too sensible for many of the people posting here

They are probably the same people who infest the Evening News comments and do such a good impression of that old institution an Edinburgh mob.

These people don’t see that they are acting in precisely the way they claim others act. Skim the comments made on this board and it is easy to find the threats, false accusations and bullying of a mob.

John on August 25, 2010
“I would not be a happy member of the public if someone i didnt know grabbed my arm at all!”

Stop making things up, they are not accused of grabbing anyone. It would be very difficult for them to grab anyone’s arm, you may recall that they are accused of the “crime” of having their hands glued together. Which is it, did they have their hands glued together or were they grabbing people’s arms?

“If you are allowed to protest your opinion then people who need to use their bank should be left alone.”

Protest involves inconvenience to the general public of varying levels. That is one of the facets of living in a democracy, one which most people are happy to put up with as the alternatives are unpalatable. I don’t agree with many of the protests which inconvenience me in Edinburgh, but I am very pleased to see them taking place.

John on August 25, 2010
Totally agree Charlene, and I sure the organisers now understand the public do not respond well to violence. at least some of the protesters have seen the errors in their ways, just hope they can convince the rest that violence gets them nowhere, no matter how hard people like John seem to think it is justifiable.

Stop denying it!! on August 25, 2010
>“stopping customers from entering the bank, chanting slogans and gluing themselves together”

Um, John – that’s Breach of the Peace – look it up (preferably in a text on Scots Law).

>“damaging property and graffiti-ing bins”

Sound like crimes to me, though I haven’t heard the other side.”

What other side? – it’s just Malicious Mischie. Why on earth, when these idiots are proud to have their faces plastered all over the Climate camp website in photos that Tamara or Justin took on the new iPhone that Mummy gave them for passing their general studies GCSE, do these folk insist on wasting yet more valuable public resources by pleading not guilty?

>”Protest involves inconvenience to the general public of varying levels.”

Why should it involve inconvenience at all? That’s not protest, it’s just narcissism……..

Edinburger on August 25, 2010
John, please do not lecture us about democracy. I believe in the right of legitimate protest, but do not support the bully tactics of preventing others going about their business without fear or alarm. Incidentally, is everyone who disagrees with your point of view a “Troll” as you put it? Should we wear identifying badges to indicate this?
Are you seeing the picture yet…?

Troll (Apparently) on August 25, 2010
Gandalf, great post. You strike a chord when you add responsibility to rights of protest. Pity there’s not more like you.

Troll (Apparently) on August 25, 2010
“I believe in the right of legitimate protest, but do not support the bully tactics of preventing others going about their business without fear or alarm.”

Stop hyperventilating.

I don’t believe for a second that any reasonable person was caused fear or alarm by three people with their hands glued together, or the slogans. There are some photographs at http://www.minimouse.me.uk/rbs/nine/index.html and it looks nothing like the sort of thing the trolls claim happened.

If I was in a queue in a bank, caused by the number of staff being reduced, I would welcome a little music and dance while I waited. I am built of sterner stuff than some claim the general public is, I wouldn’t be caused fear or alarm by the action at the bank branch shown in the photographs. If some people had glued themselves together in the doorway I would have a chat with them, find out why they were doing it, agree or disagree with them and ask if they minded me entering or leaving the bank. I hope the police shown in the photographs in the doorway were not preventing people entering or leaving the bank.

I was chatting to some of the people in the photographs on Sunday. Very pleasant people. The chances of them causing any reasonable person fear or alarm are zero. You are falling for hype and propaganda, or making the hype and propaganda yourself.

On the other hand smashing windows is something which might well cause reasonable persons fear and alarm. It has caused me fear and alarm when I have been behind a window which was smashed. However, the few windows which were smashed were in empty parts of a large building, there have been no reports of windows being smashed elsewhere. I have already posted my opinions on windows smashing here.

John on August 25, 2010
This was mob mentality, if this is the type of “protest” that your looking for, then me and my mates will protest your hippie teeth in.
get it up ya

furious jim on August 25, 2010
From the safety of their keyboards the trolls threaten violence and swear. I guess they are stamping their feet too.

Their bravado while sitting on their backsides is in marked contrast to the wonderful people who took the trouble to go to climate camp and take action around Edinburgh in a variety of inventive ways.

The louder and longer the trolls try and attract attention by shouting the clearer it is that they have nothing constructive to offer the discussion.

John on August 25, 2010
John, I’ll leave you to your delusion. Again, “we didn’t do it, it was someone else / it’s OK it was a bank window”. Have you forgotten about the oil on road? Take some responsibility FFS. You are not interested in any opinion other than your own, constructive or not.
Good point William. He is.

Troll (Apparently) on August 25, 2010
“ask if they minded me entering or leaving the bank”
!!!!!!!!

Troll (Apparently) on August 25, 2010
From the safety of their keyboards the trolls again shout loudly, though this time they didn’t threaten violence or swear Progress I suppose. I guess they are still stamping their feet though.

As for the “oil on the road”, I see no reason to change what I wrote yesterday or on Monday. If oil was deliberately spilt on the two roads then I condemn whoever did it. For those who are not too hot at comprehension that includes condemning any climate camper who did it. But, it is not yet clear that oil was deliberately spilt on the road and, if it was, we don’t yet have any information on who did it, so it is premature to condemn anybody. I assume you don’t have access to more information than is public, I don’t. I am not a politician, I do not rush to the press before I have the full facts to call for all climate campers to be put in a gibbet just because that is what readers of the Evening News want to hear.

John on August 25, 2010
“From the safety of their keyboards the trolls threaten violence and swear. I guess they are stamping their feet too.

Their bravado while sitting on their backsides is in marked contrast to the wonderful people who took the trouble to go to climate camp and take action around Edinburgh in a variety of inventive ways.

The louder and longer the trolls try and attract attention by shouting the clearer it is that they have nothing constructive to offer the discussion.”

Clearly anyone who dares to challenge the narrowminded and blinkered idiocy of your viewpoint is a “troll”.

So much for supporting free speech!

Face it – you and your kind are just not welcome in Scotland – stay away.

Edinburger on August 25, 2010
Uh huh, I’m sure the idiots who put the oil on the road were nothing to do with your protest. It’s all a big coincidence.

I wonder if the morons who did it stopped to think that some ecowarrior, vegetarian, hippy cycling to work may have ended up underneath a truck because of it. I ride past RBS to work on my 125 motorbike – its emissions are tiny, and that stunt put MY life in danger. Bloody idiots.

I support the development of renewable energy technologies here in Scotland and a reduction in the use of fossil fuels, but you lot are just a bunch of idiots, vandals and petty thugs.

Furious on August 25, 2010
CHeck out the hairy pits on the oily ga ga birds.
Boak.
Did you enjoy the water the RBS pumped into your site all weekend, hypocrites?
Were your stupid slogans painted in oil based paint?
Were your tents made of recycled materials, or hemp?
I agree with above. Whilst the cause might have been a good one, and worthy of protest, you sweaty, dreadlocked , smarmy “i know my rights” smug, smelly bampots lost any sympathy I had for your protest the second you attacked the bank.

Great Idea, lets attack a bank thats one of the biggest employers in the capital, during a month hosting the biggest arts festival in europe, hosted by…RBS,a mile fron the national rugby stadium, team sponsors RBS, and to top it all, smear oil on the busiest roads in the capital, during rush hour…. arseholes!

aldocpaldo on August 25, 2010
Next time yez com te edinburgh try camping at the jack kane centre, we be waiting to welcome yez johnny boy.

YNT on August 25, 2010
Hey Climate Campers – come clean!

Why don’t you tell everyone where you got all your fresh water from while you were in Edinburgh?

And since I’m sure you won’t, my sources tell me that your RBS “hosts” supplied it all free gratis since the local water board couldn’t.

Nothing quite like biting the hand that feeds.

Why don't you come clean? on August 25, 2010
So you took water from the bank. Then repaid them by smashing their windows and trashing their land. Not to mention risking lives with your oil spill. Yer all twats.

Climate Camp Parasites on August 25, 2010
I wonder if all the critics who have commented at great length above have ever used a fraction of the time spent on these comments to write to their MPs on issues of social injustice.Does Charlene realise how woment achieved the right to vote?

A sense of proportion on August 25, 2010
I’ll let you know that my great great gran was a suffragette but the universal right to vote and a government for the people by the people has nothing to do with smashing up windows at all.
Never try to preach to me about political history love as you will not win.
I have actually sent emails to both mike crockart and his predecessor john barrett. I have fought for things i believe in but i NEVER will use bullying tactics for it. The suffragettes were not treated near enough as well as RBS treated you guys, none of you died but you could have killed us with your stupid stunts. Women were willing to die so other women could get the vote, you would never become a martyr for this cause and you know it.

charlene on August 25, 2010
1) Setting up a peaceful camp at RBS, encouraging the staff to come out to talk to you and see you point of view. Setting up a peaceful protest outside bank branches encouraging RBS customers to talk to you and see you point of view.

or

2) Shut down RBS by vandalising the building, alienating RBS staff in the process. Stop RBS customers going into their branch and going about their daily business, alienating RBS customers in the process. Spread oil on busy road alienating citizens of Edinburgh in the process.

Personally I think that you needed to get RBS Staff, RBS Customers and the general public on your side. You failed at all three. In fact you somehow managed to go up against the bad guy (RBS) and come out looking the worse of the two!

Anonymous on August 25, 2010
Sorry the question above was:

Climate Campers, which do you think would have had a more positive effect for your cause?

1) ……

Anonymous on August 25, 2010
thanks for a nice little earner baby sitting you monkeys!!!

bruce lee on August 25, 2010
“I’ll let you know that my great great gran was a suffragette but the universal right to vote and a government for the people by the people has nothing to do with smashing up windows at all.”

Then I’ll let you know that, despite your claims on political history, you probably don’t know too much about what they did.

The suffragettes split from the suffragists because they didn’t think the suffragists were radical enough. The suffragists organised petitions and all the other “legal” campaigning stuff which many posters here have advised climate campers to do.

The suffragettes were involved in direct-action, particularly after their first few years. Setting fire to letter boxes and buildings, getting into places they were not supposed to be, disrupting meetings, locking themselves on to things (had superglue been invented then they would have used it) and smashing windows (which they called “the argument of the stone”) being their best known tactics. Nearby Fife was a hotbed of suffragettes because Herbert Asquith, who was Prime Minister for much of the campaign, was MP for St Andrews.

You will tie yourself in knots if you try and defend suffragettes while at the same time criticising the far milder climate campers.

Climate campers are unlikely to be force fed and put through a Cat and Mouse Act, but don’t underestimate their determination. Risks arising during direct action can be minimised but not eliminated, something which forms part of training in direct-action.

As far as I know the only suffragette death was of Emily Wilding Davison and that was almost certainly accidental. She was considered rather militant by most suffragettes, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Davison states

“She was arrested and imprisoned for various offences, including a violent attack on a man she mistook for the Chancellor of the Exchequer, David Lloyd George. She went on hunger strike in Strangeways Prison and was force-fed. In Holloway prison, she threw herself down an iron staircase as a protest. She landed on wire netting 30 feet (10 m) below, which saved her; however, she suffered some severe spinal damage.”

“In 1913, she planted a bomb at Lloyd George’s newly built house in Surrey, damaging it severely.”

John on August 25, 2010
This is my first post and it’s directed to John.

You’ve just described the escalation of the suffragettes movement to one of non-violence to one of violence. This is in the context of a thread about campers spreading oil on roads. Whether you realise this or not, you are suggesting violent direct action against innocent bystanders is justified in this cause. Surely if ’500,000 people are being killed by Climate Change each year then it is justifiable to try to kill a few innocent bystanders just to draw attention to your issue.

“Risks arising during direct action can be minimised but not eliminated, something which forms part of training in direct-action.”

blackThistle on August 25, 2010
“1) Setting up a peaceful camp at RBS, encouraging the staff to come out to talk to you and see you point of view.”

They did that, within easy walking distance and open to any member of bank staff to wander over and see what it was all about. The campers didn’t ask for the police to be on the bridge acting as a barrier to bank staff visiting. Neither can the campers be responsible for any member of staff thinking that they would be looked on unfavourably by the bank if they had wandered over the bridge to the camp.

“Setting up a peaceful protest outside bank branches encouraging RBS customers to talk to you and see you point of view.”

A peaceful protest is shown in the photographs at http://www.minimouse.me.uk/rbs/nine/index.html with entertainment and leaflets being handed out.

Granted there were also three people glued together standing in the door, but as you can see from http://www.minimouse.me.uk/rbs/nine/source/img_6831.html it was possible to get out. When they were removed by the police they were replaced by four “tar-covered” people locked-on, but the entertainment and leafletting continued.

John on August 25, 2010
Does the Climate Camp accept a diversity of tactics so broad that it covers-up for violent direct action?

blackThistle on August 25, 2010
“Whether you realise this or not, you are suggesting violent direct action against innocent bystanders is justified in this cause.”

There is no need to imagine what I am suggesting, I stated my position clearly earlier today:

As for the “oil on the road”, I see no reason to change what I wrote yesterday or on Monday. If oil was deliberately spilt on the two roads then I condemn whoever did it. For those who are not too hot at comprehension that includes condemning any climate camper who did it. But, it is not yet clear that oil was deliberately spilt on the road and, if it was, we don’t yet have any information on who did it, so it is premature to condemn anybody.

For your second posting please try and do better.

John on August 25, 2010
What a bunch of useless unemployed thugs. What was the point of your climate camp, SEX, DRUG & VIOLANCE?
Why does your following need donations, BECAUSE YOU ARE A BUNCH OF USELESS UNEMPLOYED LAY ABOUTS.
Get a job and get a life, bugger off back to where you came from, you are not welcome in Scotland. The point of your protest was well and truly lost in all the destruction that you have left the REAL tax payer to foot the bill for.
PUTTNG LIFES AT RISK = MURDER
Me thinks you need a new leadership, which will give direction and strategy to your movement, minus wasting tax payer money.
I hope the CC movement have plenty of mummy & daddy donations to foot their useless brat’s bad behaviour as the bill is in the post.

Morons on August 25, 2010
So John, are you a camper? Do you speak for any of the groups that took part, because if you can clearly condemn the oil spillage then why couldn’t the spokespeople?
Do you accept that the spillage is much more likely from the current evidence to have been a dubious camper than some conspiracy?
If you can so clearly condemn a deliberate spillage on a public road, then why can’t others? Why didn’t the spokespeople clearly criticise violent direct action aimed cowardly at innocents?

And why the ongoing pretence and lack of accountability?

This camp was a major reverse.

blackThistle on August 25, 2010
Get a grip John – how on earth is rampaging around the bank’s main building blaring loud music amd trying to rush a mob through the doors in any way “peaceful”?

Similarly, herding a crew of hideous talentless slappers into a bank branch where they wailed out some dreadful out of tune lyrics written by a 3 year old can hardly be classified as “entertainment”,in the same way that a bunch of masked yobs rampaging around is a “mob”, not “street theatre”.

By the way, thanks for the reference to the photos – the woman in the previous one (IMG_6746.JPG) sure looks “entertained” at having her liberty curtailed by 3 criminals.

Edinburger on August 25, 2010
John,

Wake up and smell the coffee, you clearly hold your cause dear to your heart which is cool, but you have to admit that the actions of what was in fairness a minority eliment within your camp has done you guys no favours whatsoever. I believe that there was a split in the camp and open argument broke out about what was acceptable action and what was just plain criminal behaviour. If you guys want to gain any form of public support you must route out this eliment. I have also heard that a meeting took place to discuss giving back the police equipment some of your camp stole and it was decided not to give it up why? unless your people mean to use it against others. You cant walk away from the oil spilling incident and I fear that any support you had in scotland has gone with that one moment of sheer madness.

Cavey on August 25, 2010
“So John, are you a camper?”

As I have said before, I visited the camp on Sunday. We had to abandon a very useful seminar on tar sands to deter the police when they assembled in a menacing manner at one of the bridges. The history of climate camps includes the police invading at Heathrow and Kingsnorth (where they tried to steal materials for the water supplies, toilets and kitchens). As a result campers are very sensitive to potential police incursions and are organised to resist them. Our seminar happened to be the nearest large gathering of people and so one of the bridge watch asked us to go and defend the bridge which we did.

While doing that I observed the way the police deliberately delayed an injured camper being taken to an ambulance. If the campers had caused a similar delay to a police officer being taken to an ambulance you can bet your boots that the Scotsman/Evening News would have had screaming headlines about it.

“Do you speak for any of the groups that took part,”

No.

“Do you accept that the spillage is much more likely from the current evidence to have been a dubious camper than some conspiracy?”

At the moment we the public don’t know whether there were deliberate spillages, what if anything was spilt and who if anybody spilt it. Anything else is conjecture. A lie is halfway round the world before truth has got its boots on. There have been police smears of climate camp before, I have no idea whether this is another one or not, but it is a possibility and I can understand a reluctance to leap in with both feet like politicians, journalists and many posters here have done.

“If you can so clearly condemn a deliberate spillage on a public road, then why can’t others?”

You are distorting what I typed. If there were deliberate spillages then I condemn that, no matter who was responsible. At the moment though we don’t know whether there were or not.

What you see at the top of this post is the camp media team doing what media teams do. They report that nobody has claimed responsibility to them. What would people like them to do after that, put on deerstalker hats and investigate whether there was a deliberate spill and if so who did it?

Having reported that nobody has claimed responsibility they go on to point out that the police have form. They list two of the smears the police have mounted against climate camp. That is an important factor to consider before rushing to condemn climate campers.

John on August 25, 2010
It’s so silly of you to dismiss the entire readership of the main local newspaper and the main national newspaper during your camp’s battle for publicity that I would prefer a reply to my previous questions from an actual camper, preferably a spokesperson or an organiser who doesn’t make such daft misjudgements. That isn’t an unreasonable request on this blog, is it?

Why didn’t Climate Camp respond to perfectly plausible allegations of attempted manslaughter with a full denial or at the very least a public renunciation of such acts?

blackThistle on August 26, 2010
“but you have to admit that the actions of what was in fairness a minority eliment within your camp”

My camp? I think you need to find out a little more about the camp.

Talk of splits is similarly off. Consensus building involves everyone who wants to having the opportunity to say what they want. There may have been all sorts of views expressed, but I imagine in the end a consensus was reached. There is a summary at http://www.climatecamp.org.uk/get-involved/how-our-meetings-work

“I have also heard that a meeting took place to discuss giving back the police equipment some of your camp stole”

My camp?

The equipment, a radio, was not stolen, it was left behind by a police officer and retrieved for safe keeping. I expect a meeting was then held to achieve consensus on what to do with the retrieved radio. The police had asked for it back, that message was passed to us while we were deterring the police from invading. Returning it was presumably an option which was discussed, along with retaining it. The police now use encrypted radios I gather, if they have nothing to hide then they can have nothing to fear from others hearing what orders are being given in this situation. It would only be if the police were up to no good that they would want to hide their communications and if they were up to no good then that is a good reason for the campers knowing what they were up to.

Lastly a separate point. The trolls have been crowing about the arrests, though they were a very small number. I imagine more people are arrested on a Saturday night in Edinburgh than the whole of climate camp. However, by the time the newspapers were printing stories about the total number of campers arrested the Forth Energy protestors had been released with no charges. They didn’t mention that in their stories. It is a pattern we have seen before.

I have now done enough rebutting of various comments here. If something major crops up I may return. We will see whether the “oil slick” story is quietly abandoned with the hope that a smear remains in some people’s minds or people are convicted.

John on August 26, 2010
I suspect it is a case of the left hand carefully ignoring what the right hand was doing. That isn’t plausible deniablility.

blackThistle on August 26, 2010
The police could have entered the camp anytime they chose. That they did not is down to their decision not the camps ability to “repel” them.

Keeping the police radio is theft. That is a crime.

Police radios are encrypted not to keep their what you suppose to be nefarious activities secret, but to keep sensitive information out of the hands of criminals.

Saying you “had to” abandon your seminar to repel the police who were assembling in a threatening manner, is nonsense. Firstly, you had no right to be there and the police can assemble in any manner they wish. Secondly the campers several times trumpeted their successful “incursions” which involved them assembling in a threatening manner at the bridge and then acting like idiots.

you chose to leave your seminar to mass against a lawful police activity in response to your unlawful mob activity.

Some facts on August 26, 2010
I would just add that this lot of hypocrites mostly parked at the Gyle in droves of cars and are happy to use fossil fuel for their own purposes but if you not a “right on” Climate camper its not ok and your a climate criminal…..Pathetic.
The Police could have and should have arrested every single one of them they didnt because clearly a decision was made simply not to . A complete childish buch or stupid idiots with no real claim to be the voice of climate change.
They are obviously a bit mental

Anonymous on August 26, 2010
Here are some general points:

To ask Climate Camp (CC) to pay for the cost of policing seems ridiculous. Would we ask the same of all events and protests?
It would make protesting financially inviable for grassroot movements, especially as a movement got bigger.

There are some people talking about the “golden rule,” asking if CC would like it if RBS gave them similar treatment (camping in there back yard etc).
If RBS lived by the golden rule CC wouldn’t have been there.

Let’s admit CC committed crimes and that some crimes are greater then others and so are relative. I would much rather a broken window to RBS’s funding of the Tar sands. I am sure there are people in Alberta that would rather someone gluing themselves to there front door than being unable to fish or drink the local water.

I would like to challenge people to think of and alternative way of protest before telling CC “to go home to mummy” etc. You don’t have to write it just try thinking of it because the reasons these people are protesting should have you at least a little bit worried.

a little worried on August 26, 2010
“I would like to challenge people to think of and alternative way of protest before telling CC “to go home to mummy” etc. You don’t have to write it just try thinking of it because the reasons these people are protesting should have you at least a little bit worried.”

I have no worries at all. If RBS wishes to invest in any legal activity that shows a decent return, then that is te business of its management and shareholders.

I can read for myself and don’t have to have Climate Camp’s one sided propaganda rammed through the windows of a leading Scottish company.

Climate Camp may have its opinions and they are perfectly entitled to believe them (many people believe that fairies exist but they don’t go around wasting public money by causing malicious mischief).

Edinburger on August 26, 2010
John;

There was a spillage. The police are investigating it and committing resources to it. That much they told me personally.

I’ve also read numerous posts, articles, spoke to people locally and it did happen. They watched as council workers applied tonnes of grit as they were held up or going slow through the jam.

I think someone mentioned CC completely renunciating the acts whether they were involved or not and their complete avoidance of this show up their level of guilt.

The email I received back from CC was nothing short of dismissive and the fact that a you tube video on this very site shows protesters leeking oil on a busy road in Edinburgh (Lothian Road) also show guilt.

You can’t do that and get away with it; protest or not, that was a crime. A breach of the Road Safety Act and I have reported this to the police also.

idiosta on August 26, 2010
It would appear from listening to some of the drongos who were involved in that farce at the RBS in Edinburgh and brave enough and had courage to stop hiding behind suits, weapons and masks that you have a bit of intelligence about you….so the question must be asked, when will you bunch of smelly, lazy, unemployable, waste of oxygen users realise that your campaign has been a total disaster for each of you, your ideals and your beliefs!. You have achieved diddly squat, hee haw, nowt, the list goes on! Oh sorry you have achieved one thing, pushing the public as a whole totally away from your smelly way of life and paranoid dilusions that everyone is wrong and you drongos are right. The very people you detest, big business and police have been made to look great and you are being laughed at. Put what ever spin you want on it you have totally failed to make any impact. Smashed a few windows, chucked some oil substance about, oh and lets not forget about scaling a couple of buildings and sticking some people to furniture, wow what a good week that was. RBS & Police 1 drongos 0. I bet everyone of the excellent RBS security staff and the Police, who seemed to extremely respectful and polite, would love to, and would have succeed, given the chance to fill everyone of you idiots in.

Get it up yeh ya bunch of dafties on August 26, 2010
John;

Please do not talk also about how the camp operates that there are small groups who latch on and decide to do what they want to do.

If this is the case then CC really need to get their house in order because all you’re doing is providing a source for criminal behaviour.

That to me is direct contribution be it conciously or not.

I will be following CC for the foreseeable future but not for the reasons you would want me to. I will personally be contacting any local services of the places you next want to go and highlighting the actions that happened in Edinburgh last weekend.

I can only hope these areas are not as lenient as ECC were last weekend with you.

Similarly, I spoke to someone who went out to Gogaburn last weekend to see the CCers and they were goading police and being threatening to them (acxording to a nuetral observer). He asked the police why aren’t they over laying into them physically. The policeman said to his eternal credit;

“Son, I’d love to. But I can’t…We’re not allowed to”

idiosta on August 26, 2010
okay, so while I’m not that happy about this blog being trolled to death by web forums claiming to represent ‘the public’, at least it’s going to boost the google search rating.

and the oil slick thing was blatantly police lies – as they do everytime, they’re just intent on covering up the actual protests.

climate camper #218 on August 26, 2010
Sure, camper #218

Police lies. My friend lied to me, even though he had no reason to. The police lied to me personally when I called them and got an email response from them, the news lied, the many people complaining that they were stuck in the jam lied, the council lied that they used tonnes of grit to clear it up…all lies, everyones against the CCers so they fabricated this story to get them into trouble!!

Freud would have a field day with you lot, honestly. Victim mentality or what??!

Why not, instead of acting like spoilt little rich kids, own up and take some responsibility for your actions?

idiosta on August 26, 2010
“…The equipment, a radio, was not stolen, it was left behind by a police officer and retrieved for safe keeping. I expect a meeting was then held to achieve consensus on what to do with the retrieved radio. The police had asked for it back, that message was passed to us while we were deterring the police from invading. Returning it was presumably an option which was discussed, along with retaining it. The police now use encrypted radios I gather, if they have nothing to hide then they can have nothing to fear from others hearing what orders are being given in this situation. It would only be if the police were up to no good that they would want to hide their communications and if they were up to no good then that is a good reason for the campers knowing what they were up to….”

What a load of tripe!! Who the hell do you think you are?? The day CCErs are above the law is the day this country has really gone to the dogs.

Hypocrisy; Our New Democracy

idiosta on August 26, 2010
“…okay, so while I’m not that happy about this blog being trolled to death by web forums claiming to represent ‘the public’, at least it’s going to boost the google search rating…”

Can you tell me why a boosted google rating would be of benefit to the climate camp?

Are you selling advertising space?

If so, can I buy some?..got a few ideas of my own.

idiosta on August 26, 2010
So far, no one from Climate Camp has condemned these Violent Direct Actions against the Scottish public or disavowed it. That makes this an all out war between the Scottish public and the Climate Camp, where violence has been inititated by the gap-year greens. Guess what the result will be?

blackThistle on August 26, 2010
I’m just keeping an eye on them blackthistle and when they plan any new ‘peaceful protests’, local services to that area will know all about their previous actions and what they will be dealing with.

I’m also considering going deep undercover into one of their camps. I already have one mole who provided me with all the details of discussions held at the Gogaburn Camp.

This was a major success for my first foray into exposing their lies, deceit and unwanting violence.

As one of their donaters pointed out (and the reason I am doing all this) they are pocketing public money to allow a platform for criminal activity and violence.

The general public should really know what this group are all about.

This didn’t start after the weekend, it begun after their Heathrow sham, which beggared belief as to why they were there.

idiosta on August 26, 2010
Just a few points, people:
I’ve been to two previous climate camps and both times the police put about false stories about violent or dangerous actions the protesters were supposedly planning. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out why they might do this. In the same way if you ever go to a demonstration, it will be reported on the news that about 1/4 or less of the people attended, based on police figures that are dutifully trotted out by the BBC without being questioned.

I’m disurbed by the level of support for corporate pillage being expressed here:

>I have no worries at all. If RBS wishes to invest in any legal activity that shows a decent return, then that is te business of its management and shareholders.

Since when does ‘legal’ equate to ‘moral’? Slavery used to be perfectly legal. What if these legal activities cause ocean acidification, rising sea levels and climatic disturbances? As they do.

NickB on August 26, 2010
Nick B,

“..Since when does ‘legal’ equate to ‘moral’? Slavery used to be perfectly legal. What if these legal activities cause ocean acidification, rising sea levels and climatic disturbances? As they do..”

Prove it so.

idiosta on August 26, 2010
Hi again Idiosta

I’m sure the public are genuinely thankful for your dedication in taking Climate Camp to task and I think your reasoning could actually open up more avenues…

For example if you’re against people or organisations “pocketing public money to allow a platform for criminal activity and violence.” then you could also go after the police, many businesses, e.g. RBS, as well as the Army, Government, MPs and MSPs and no doubt many, many more!

Simon on August 26, 2010
Absolutely Simon,

I fully intend to but at the moment, I am concentrating my efforts on the Climate Camp. I’ll trust the campaign will be honoured by this.

Those organisations you mention are funded by taxpayers money and not donations so there is a bit of a difference but you get the picture.

idiosta on August 26, 2010
Ah yes – but that’s even worse. Most people donating to CC have an idea of what the movement is about.

A large number of people are unaware of what their taxes get used for and have no say in refusing/resisting payment.

But good to know you’re aware!

Simon on August 26, 2010
So the donaters are fully aware of what was discussed at those meetings in Gogaburn at the weekend? Or any previous? And don’t just ‘have an idea’ of what the money is used for?

Who’s donating? George Galloway??

And as for refusing/resisting tax payments…hey, who would do such a thing?

Any news on your next course of action?

Cheers

idiosta on August 26, 2010
Yawn are you lot still here!

What part of nobody cares about your protest?

You undermined it as soon as you refused to speak to the RBS added with the vandalism etc etc and etc.

Guess what it was

ALL BOLLOCKS

ALL Bollocks on August 26, 2010
Just watched the what the police took from me video.

PITY THEY DIDN@T TAKE YOU ALL AWAY. MY HEART BLEEDS FOR YOU. YOU SHOULDN@T BE THERE YOU ARE BREAKING THE LAW

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH

ALL BOLLOCKS

ALL Bollocks on August 26, 2010
Hey Simon is back!

Simon, please go back through all the blog postings and answer all the questions that have been raised….the ones you’ve been avoiding.

Anonymous on August 26, 2010
@idiosta
Well here’s a simple analogy. If you increase the insulation on a heated object (the earth) with a constant thermal input (the sun), physical law dictates its temperature will increase. Like putting a lid on a pan. Get it?
Fossil fuels give off CO2 when you burn them and this is an insulating gas, as well as one that makes water acidic when it is absorbed by it. Now, whatever else is true, we’ve been burning an exponentially increasing quantity of fossil fuel since the industrial revolution.

So why on earth do you think it would NOT have these effects?

Nick

NickB on August 26, 2010
How upsetting to see these negative comments. Proof that the movement can be discredited at the drop of a hat by anyone who wishes to do so. In this case, maybe a disgruntled local outraged at the camp? The police linking us to a random event (come on now, where are the pictures, where is the proof?)? Or even RBS chief exec himself?! Seriously though, I, like everyone I know and met at the camp, was disgusted by this ridiculous incident. And it didn’t take me long to come to the conclusion that this was not camp-related. If it was carried out by anyone at the camp then they have no idea about the movement’s ethos, as no one would dream of endangering the lives of others through actions. It doesn’t take a genius to work out that such an act would do nothing but damage to climate camp. I just hope that everyone who has flung out accusations here will do a lot of hat eating once the police confirm it was not camp related. As for the smashing – that was an attempt to get inside the building and occupy it. Controversial, but not mindless smashing for the sake of smashing. And the sling shot? This was a medieval siege! What did you expect?! And no, it wasnt oil you fools, it was molasses. The wasps will eat it in no time. So many people who believe everything they read – no wonder we’re in such a state. All social movements in the past have been lambasted by the state, media and then public, especially if direct action was used. But now people look back and see why strong tactics were essential for change. History will spit on those of us who did nothing. And children will spit on the parents and grandparents who let the world go to shit. From a full-time employed tax paying climate camper.

Lewdafunk on August 26, 2010
Some facts – I witnessed the police radio fall into the stream during the struggle to get accross the bridge. I later informed the police and am sure it has now been recovered, sticklebacks and all. There was no theft.

Lewdafunk on August 26, 2010
Molasses=oil like substance=slippy liquid

on main roads, on a wet day=increases risk from slipping hazard=caused by climate protesters=linked to this campaign

done

do one

Idiosta on August 26, 2010
You know, i’m all for protest and most especially environmental awareness. But what I don’t take kindly to is increased risk to public safety caused by so-called ‘peaceful protesters’.

You need to be warned before you do some damage.

Idiosta on August 26, 2010
Lewdafunk – I couldn’t care if you promote yourself as one of the very, very, very few who pays taxes on your site. I care about the actions of the rest of the non paying tax spongers on your camp whos actions have had a serious impact on the Edinburgh residents and that of any area you swampy idiots turn up at.

As I said in my earlier post, which is still to be commented on by you, your followers, the climate camp group as a whole or your bigoted and one sided view TV camp, your week in Edinburgh has achieved nothing, particularly by way of supporting or promoting your group.

People in Edinburgh are generally fed up with the amount of annoying & opinionated students, who lets not forget tend to jump on the bandwagons of any rubbish like your group wish to promote. Lets look back in recent times, ‘your kind’ (protesters or a similar ilk, who have attended a number of these ‘meetings’) whether it be through the G8 demonstrations or the NATO protests, really all you achieved was a minor bit of disruption and a small amount of damage. If this was a big business groups workings your leaders would be sacked as you are clearly inept at your roles.

I believe the RBS and the Police took the total piss out of you and the reasons I think that was opn a couple of points. One, the RBS played a total bliner, yes they knew your group were going to arrive. They allowed you to camp but you were shown where you could stay, out of the road of the majority of the public and the access of the press. Major coup there, no publicity, no interest! In fact no interest on your twisted thinkings anyway! To rub salt into your groups wounds, with a day to go, the RBS security on their own, without the backing of the Police could have probably thrown your weasly group of its site but, again thought wait a minute, lets be the good guys here, lets allow them another free nights stay. You monkeys are happy and the RBS are made to look like great deal makers and the nice friendly group, totally not what you idiots wanted.

As far as the Police are concerned, they waited it would appear in reserve being polite, talking and monitoring discretely your pathetic attempts to do anything. Yes, as it is reported a bunch of you mongos danced over a bridge as if you had eaten a pile of magic mushrooms or any other illegal substances that most of you looked like you had partaken in and were dancing to the next song to annoy and make the people within the RBS laugh at your stupid, pointless antics. And as this mask was being displayed your real mask was slipping with a number of your group throwing on white suits (most likely in an attempt to hide your true colours) and trying to smash windows and cause what you really wanted to do and damage property and repel against anything you didn’t like.

But after allowing you to have your freedom or speech (music around the building and dancing) and movement, and you idiots moving the goal posts, you got f**ked over. You could not fart without it being noticed, you did nothing to the main area you were, you annoyed no one except the public of Edinburgh and yourselves. Oh sorry you went into Edinburgh CC and created a further tit of yourselves, for about 10 minutes. The Police commanders told you in no uncertain terms on the TV you stepped out of line and you would, be dealt with in an appropriate manner. Again your workings back fired, the Police gave you a chance to make your point, peacefully, but your stupidity as a group shown through and your masked extremism slipped of your faces but instead of doing anything you were hounded like the wild dogs you are and live as and spanked with your bums in the air!

Your group are pathetic and hopefully, if there unfortunately has to be one, and you idiots turn up in Edinburgh for another stupid meaningless protest it is the citizens and not the companies, taxpayers, police and any other organisation that show what you mean to this area and boot the shit out of you back to which ever part of the globe you normally sponge from.

Get it up yeh ya bunch of dafties on August 26, 2010
climate camper #218
“and the oil slick thing was blatantly police lies – as they do everytime, they’re just intent on covering up the actual protests.”

WHAAAT?!
how can something that big be a lie? Everyone who was held up that morning… the council workers that went out… lothian buses making a public statement that the buses had to be stopped because of this incident
A police lie would be something where there are no witnesses and there are clearly loads out there

There has been no oil/substance spill on the road within the past year that caused such disruption yet 3 acts using these similar substances happen on the same day, how can this just be passed off as a coincidence by you (meaning anyone denying it before john misreads what people mean by that using that word)

9:15am Activists create an “oil slick” outside Cairn Energy’s offices in Lothian Road. The oil-like substance was carried in a two-metre long container resembling a piggy bank with the RBS logo.

9.30am An oil-like substance is poured on on A720 at Bankhead and the west bound A8, forcing the roads to be closed. Around the same time a banner is unfurled from a bridge on the stretch of the A8 stating “RBS using our money to **** the planet.”

1.15pm The Camp for Climate Action tells The Scotsman the spills on the city bypass was not an official CCA protest act.

4.30pm Four containers containing a molasses-like are thrown by protesters, striking the RBS HQ building.

I put the middle one in to confirm to others that it was noted by CCA that it DID happen. Again they stated it was not official but as you can see they have realised there is a link between the banner and the oil otherwise they would have stated they had NOTHING to do with it. They know that clearly someone did who is supporting their actions but they cannot confirm who it was as they were not acting under what would have been discussed during the ‘training’ period

charlene on August 27, 2010
Get up yeh ya bunch of dafties – I think you’ll find many campers are employed and paying tax, some earning and ‘contributing’ more than your fine self. You’d be suprise3d at the number of PhD’s knocking around. And anyway, as a tax payer I’m very happy to know my taxes are being used to support the brave individials that are agitating for change in these dark times. Much more preferable than paying for bombs and illegal wars.

You claim we achieved nothing. Well, I spoke to several friendly police officers and police liaison people who had never heard about the tar sands of Alberta prior to the camp. Now they have been educated about the world’s most environmentally destructive project. That is surely something.

As for your attitude towards protesters in general and your disgruntlement about previous protests in the area – if you had any idea about the atrocities and injustice that define our times then you may just begin to understand why some people choose to challenge them. It has always been a determined minority that has made change. Its just as well you don’t live in a country like Bolivia. They have strong social movements and face up to injustice by shutting down whole cities for a week at a time! Imagine these comments if that had happened in Edinburgh! But I suppose that is why we are having this debate in the first place. As residents of a Western society that is pretty sheltered to the worst of the world’s injustices, many of us are unaware and feel no need to leave our comfort zones to act. Many feel threatened by those who would rather organise and resist instead of being a good citizen and buying lots of crap we don’t need and settling down for a night of big brother. That is why I have nothing but love and respect for all those who risk their liberty in the name of solidarity with those who suffer on the other side of the planet.

You talk of our camp ‘leaders’. Work harder on your homework son, there are no leaders.

Yes, apparently RBS had a nice little space planned if we did manage to outfox the police and begin set up. However, the area opposite the building was not meant top be a part of this, and we quickly took over this space to great effect. We’ve never previously ended up so close to the target! Fantastic!

And, finally, “trying to smash windows and cause what you really wanted to do and damage property and repel against anything you didn’t like”. Many people on that incursion, myself included, were not aware of any plans to enter the building. The window breaking that did occur was not ‘mindless’ destruction for the sake of it, it was an attempt to enter and occupy the building, therefore shutting it down for the Monday, which was a stated aim. I’m not justifying it, I just think that needs clarifying. With no people inside with it being a Sunday, there was little chance of any injuries. As for the oil on the road incident, I’m sure the truth will come out soon. If it was anyone related to the camp, shame on them for going against the principles of our action, which is never aimed at harming people. That was uncharacteristic of the camp, poorly thought out and idiotic. However, I am sure that no links will emerge to link it with the camp. As stated earlier, there are always attempts to discredit movements seen as subversive. Check out the following links; one about The Evening Standard ridiculous bomb plot smeer campaign (which they later retracted and apologised for as it was fabricated) and one describing the list of injuries to officers during the Kingsnorth camp (insinuating they were injuries caused by campers, but when challenged it emerged that they were mainly wasp stings and sunburn!).

http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2008/03/04/a-likely-story/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/dec/15/kingsnorth-climate-change-environment-police

Lewdafunk on August 27, 2010
“the principles of our action, which is never aimed at harming people”

However, you don’t give a toss about the potential for collateral damage from firing golf balls and usinghammers on large plate glass windows (NB for future reference, glass shards are sharp and can hurt – stick to the crap dance routines).

Edinburger on August 27, 2010
Lewdafunk;

There were people inside that building on Sunday.

You’re talking out of your arsehole.

Plus, RBS advised all their Gogarburn staff to work from home on the Monday therefore the building was already unoccupied before you started your action.

It’s like saying we won, 1-1.

You’re now spewing from your arsehole.

And see all that western civilisation bollocks your spouting? Give it a rest son! If it pisses you off that much then why are you not living in somewhere like Bolivia or such places? I’d like to see how far your ‘peaceful protest’ would get you in a third world country.

Again, this is just pious and condascending behaviour by the climate campers using the retort of ‘you’re too uneducated to understand what we’re about’ attitude that will bring your campaign crashing down and show it up for what it really is.

What dissenetrs on these blogs are saying is; take responsibility for your actions…the very same action you8 are asking the people you are protesting against to take. Once people start to put others’ lives at risk while doing this then they have to deal with the consequences.

My mind was made up on the CCers last year; if anything, your actions at the weekend brought more of the public against you.

Thank you.

idiosta on August 27, 2010
Climate Camp draws to a close and protesters return field to original condition (No you ddidn’t you bunch of hypocrites)

Protesters accuse police of scaremongering (No they weren’t)

Secret identity of woman super-glued to front desk of RBS revealed (Good)

idiosta on August 27, 2010
Fucking hell. Oil on the roads?

Pics or didn’t happen, troll fuckwits.

Go back to where you came from, the Evening News needs more page impressions to boost its advertising spend. You’ve spent the whole week wanking on about shite here and they feel lonely over at Johnson Press.

milgram on August 27, 2010
And Charlene, you’re misquoting. You know that. FOAD. Lothian Buses forced the police to withdraw their allegation in relation to the buses.

Who saw this “oil”? How come they didn’t have the presence of mind to snap it on their phones?

It’s bollocks. Go flog some other dead horse.

milgram on August 27, 2010
Lewdafunk;
You are right to say that there are probably a number of people in your group who are paying taxes and some earning well, how much they contribute to society and earn against myself….well lets just say that is debateable!?!. But we are not here to talk about that. I am sure mummy and daddy of all those taking part must be delighted that their sons and daughters PHD’s and the like were worth paying for, especially when they see their loved ones lying about doing fek all and rolling about in their own shit.

You did achieve nothing. Fact. You pushed the public further away, apart from no doubt your feked up weird student pals who seem to be the only dicks that are really supporting this. Believe it or not you dont have to live like pigs and act like animals to make sure people read items of interest. There are things called the internet, media and other sources of information that people can be made aware of what is happening around their area or the world. You were being appeased by the Polis, no doubt laughed at when you walked away thinking your waffling pish was a revalating. I would also think that there may be people who dont support your ideals who also have PHD’s!

Just to let you know I have a good understanding of what is going on around the world but why you felt it worthy of mentioning Bolivia when I clearly embarrassed you about your failed attempts to cause disruption nearer home bemuses me. You still dont answer my concerns that on at least 3 incidents here you have failed, big time. Oh yes Big Brother no sorry does not interest me at all, however, a form of Big Brother clearly bothers you idiots as you seem to think you are watched, monitored and controlled by the big one in the sky, again paranoid.

Leaders – Again, deny it all you want, or dress it up how you want, you have leaders, mark my word, they may prance around in different formats, but if your in the know then you know you have leaders. Again you cannot tell the truth.

Had to laugh about your ‘space’ comment. How gives a shit what smelly piece of land or bog you lived in. Could anyone who matters see you, did the public see you either by their own eyes or via the press, absolutely not. Again you and your week was a waste of time and you were a laughing stock. So close? How far were you? You are clinging on to nothing and sound like a right fuckwit. PHD my arse. What does it stand for Pure Hippy Dick?

“And, finally” Total shit that you arseholes were not aware of what was going on, you all played a part, whether dancing about like a group who had escaped from a mental institution or chucking on those white suits with face masks (again no balls to stand up for you beliefs as you needed to hide the majority of your face). You ‘clever’ individuals all played a part, just watch the press reviews re this, in particular the BBC.

I can not believe you and i mean all of you CC people are trying to put the ‘oil on the road’ incident down to other groups or people. It is the same feking stuff as you threw over all the other buildings and institutes over Edinburgh, where you were happy to take the plaudits for.

Lastly, look at your website and others like yours, they promote violence in a subtle way without coming out and stating it clearly. EVERYONE KNOWS YOUR GROUP AND ITS MEMBERS WERE BEHIND IT ALL. SHAME ON YOU. DISBAND NOW

Get up yeh ya bunch of dafties on August 27, 2010
I find it at least a little strange that Idiosta and Getitupyeh have spent so much time on a CCamp forum after either saying CCamp was a waste of time or that people there were ‘bunch of wasters with too much time on their hands’

Quite a lot of the anti-ccamp posts have the same tone – can whoever moderates the site see if most came from the same IP address?

Seriously I would be up for meeting up with the above two mentioned posters – I think you’re hilarious and would be glad to sit down with you both for an hour or two and try to understand how we each form our opinions

Beir Bua on August 28, 2010
you failed in so many ways.you put members of the public in danger, and then tried to say it was a government/police/rbs conspiracy, and still you deny it.you assaulted police officers, and hid your faces behind masks and white suits, and now you bleet like the sheep that you are, being the victims….shameful

sentinal on August 29, 2010
I’m strongly feeling now that Idiosta, Getitupye (if not even more of the above posters) and now sentinal are all the same person or work for the same organisation, repeating blatant boring propaganda, of course the problem, as they well know, is that many people fall for it…

If you are actually genuine geezers who feel strongly about this come out from behind your keyboards and come meet me anywhere of your choice central Glasgow or Edinburgh and lets see if we really don’t have any middle ground between us

I think sentinal is the intern on the weekend shift while the rest of his climate denying think tank/mass media fodder company/bent coppers are out powdering their noses

Beir Bua on August 29, 2010
Beir Bua,

Name a time/place/topic of discussion and I’m all yours.

idiosta on August 31, 2010
Milgram
What did i misquote? I copy pasted from the Scotsman news paper so there was no misquote.

If you are behind the wheel of a car while driving why would you use a mobile when it is ILLEGAL?! That was the stupidity behind your comment.
The fact that the roads were also dangerous would also mean even if it was legal to do so you wouldnt want to because your attention should be on the road.

I know people that drove through it but cannot be held as witnesses because they did not see it happen. If i did not know anyone who did then maybe i would see it as a consipiracy but end of the day you need to understand that even if it was someone who was from your group.. would they really have the balls to own up when they know what awaits them now?

Charlene on September 1, 2010
Yes, I too am bewildered by these – time-rich individuals. I only wish I had the time to respond…..but is it really worth it? So, before I go to bed: of course big brother monitors us you bafoon, we are classed as ‘domestic extremists’! Just like any other subversive and successful social movements of the past. And, for your information, I was in Bolivia last year (don’t you worry now, I did the whole trip without flying, for the safety of YOUR children, or children of the future, at a great financial cost (cos that’s just how selfish and mindless us types are)) ad the Bolivian people I spoke to were very impressed with the Camp for Climate Action. the presentations I delivered were well attended and appreciated. My point was (to save you from future bemusement)that when your life is seriously affected by an injustice, and it may come down to life or death, you will stand up and fight. This is something we rarely have to deal with in our privaliged bubble. But for people with empathy for the global community who are actually trying to live by their morals (which is a rarity these days, hence climate campers appearing to be extreme to those you have no inclination to act), shutting down a few branches of an unethical institution is the least that can be done. You claim to have an understanding about the world, and therefore I assume social movements. Then why can’t you just concede that although you may not agree with our tactics, we are well-meaning and trying to do something positive fro the world, instead of regurgitating cliches and backing dubious smear campaigns? Are you human…….or troll??? And if the latter, is there still no stirring in the depths of your callus soul?

Lewdafunk on September 2, 2010
And no one assulted police officers, you imbecile (which is more than can be said for police officers policing previous camps, and the bastard who killed Ian Tomlinson at the G20), sentinal, and for your information the white suits and masks are to protect the identity of those engaged in illegal acts of civil disobedience. We believe what we are doing is right, but the more times we can get away with it the better! Have to save those arrests for even bigger, bolder actions, so watch this space. I’ll be ready to continue these discussions after then, possibly from a comfy cell paid for by your hard-working self! Hasta luego mi amor x

Lewdafunk on September 2, 2010
And finally – get up yer daft whatever – FYI my mummy and daddy are very concerned about me risking my civil liberty over my moral integrity. Like you, they don’t quite understand

Lewdafunk on September 2, 2010

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Update on yesterday’s actions and that oil spill

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