RBS Porkies and Climate Camp Frogs
It doesn’t really surprise me, but it’s good to spot where RBS is choosing to lie today. Their little web of deceit keeps turning, even while we set up our action camp opposite their shiny fortress.
The first and biggest whopper, is how great they are at funding renewable energy, and that this means we haven’t done our homework and should go camp in someone else’s back garden. But as the Rainforest Action Nework points out:
“According to financial market data compiled by Bloomberg, RBS ranked third as financier for alternative energy companies in 2006. In the period since the taxpayer bailout, RBS’ ranks a distant 19th!”
So far from being a leader in green energy, RBS are frankly way, way down there. Plus, their investment in renewables has got worse since they became majority owned by the state.
Of course, they just fed the little line to the press, and it got reprinted, even though there’s no truth in it. Another one like that was the great one that ‘RBS wanted to talk with the camp’s leaders, but we refused.’ Well, the first anyone heard about this offer was through the press, so we’re all a bit amazed that RBS already know the probably response.
That said, the time for talking is over. Activists from the First Nations in Canada, along with NGOs around the world, have spent years trying to convince to stop investing in the Tar Sands, as well as all other fossil fuels, even by turning up at RBS shareholders’ meetings here in Edinburgh. The Chairman responded: “…our investments in the Tar Sands are so minimal that I don’t even know what they are.” Wow. If I were a shareholder, I’d be worried about his inability to keep track of $18 billion.
The next lie is them taking credit for our lovely camp site, claiming that they showed us where to camp after we naughtily found our way onto their property. My recollection is closer to them calling security and the police, who decided not to enter the site when they saw how many people had managed to take the space without their knowing anything about what-so-ever. We’re stretching right across their land, and are setting up camp according to how we best see fit: in a way that’s most accomodating to our environment as well as ourselves.
On a final note, that evironment includes quite a few small frogs, which we’re taking care not to step on, and are returning to the clumps of trees where they belong.
Why dont you apply your intelligence to imprioving the situation instaed of having parties at the expense of those who pay their council tax? Policing of this non sense is costing me!
MIke Harle on August 20, 2010
Tou should use the educational training that has been given (you could not afford the real cost) to you by the UK Govt to improve life for the people of the UK. Stop mucking about like this!¬
MIke Harle on August 20, 2010
Mike,
I’m going to the Camp, and I do pay Council Tax too. The climate camp has no need of police. they’ve said so every time, so if the police choose to spend £6m for the 2008 camp or a few pennies for the 2009 one, the outcome is the same. Perhaps you should ask the police why they overspend.
That said, I’m sure the day of action will get policed. Protests do. Are you suggesting nobody should ever protest about anything because of the tiny fraction of a percent it adds to police costs?
Whatever happens at the camp, it’s nothing compared to the amount of tax you’ve given to RBS in order to exacerbate climate change and take fat bonuses along the way. Which, in turn, is nothing compared to the costs of dealing with climate change if we don’t do something about it soon.
Dougal on August 20, 2010
dougal,
That was a quick reply. maybe you could get a job in IT and pay your own WAY. On the other hand, maybe you alreadt have one, based on the speed of your replt – Trace this email.
MIke Harle on August 20, 2010
Blx
MIke Harle on August 20, 2010
To Mike Harle
Have you ever been to a climate camp? Or have you formed your opinions mainly from media and newspapers you read.
I attended Kingsnorth in 2008 and Blackheath in 2009. Both times were educational, inspirational, peaceful and generally rather beautiful memories. Intelligent, empathetic, and empassioned, fully alive compassionate people and brave young souls doing all they can to ‘improve the situation’ and having a great +ve impact, and working and living together in harmony.
Vicars, priests, business people, MPs, lawyers, doctors and entrepreneurs attended too. You really are missing out!
The policing on the other hand was dire. Huge wastefulness, police doing nothing, or intimidating people, on lavish overtime, and fossil consumption set to max. (eg hovering helicopters all night)
I’m 51, had a great education, studied engineering at Cambridge and was on the Board of a thriving London consultancy until I resigned 5 years ago.
The people who attend climate camp are good brave decent people. They pay their own way, know their own minds, clear up their own mess, and brighten the lives of everyone they encounter.
I salute them.
Oh, and well said Dougal.
Dave Hampton on August 20, 2010
Interesting that to create a sustainable camp you need shelter, food, heat, water, drainage, mobile phones, digital cameras, laptops and Internet access!
Hugh Jarse on August 20, 2010
I want to join you and support you but I am not vegetarian or vegan. Am I welcome?
Supporter with attitude on August 20, 2010
Yes! All are welcome! Not everyone who goes to climate camp has to be vegetarian or vegan, but since a lot of them are it is simplest (and lowest climate impact) to make all the food provided at the camp vegan. This event is for everyone, and we all try to learn from and enrich one another regardless of diet, creed or background…
pescado on August 20, 2010
The peaceful fun loving, brave young souls caused £14000 worth of damage to the RBS building today, not to mention scaring one of the female employies half to death wehn they attempted to break into the building. Trouble makers who I bet all have bank accounts of some kind and live off mummy and daddy. Go home the majority of edinburgh folk dont want you here causing trouble in our city.
Cavey on August 20, 2010
Dougal,
I cannot understand how you can justify saying “The climate camp has no need of police”. There has already been criminal damage caused since Thursday, and your camp has been quoted as saying they will be carrying actions that are illegal.
Surely this means there IS justification for policing as you will be breaking the laws as you are obviously unable to protest peacefully, and seem to promote the use of non peaceful of illegal methods of getting your point across?
What I do not understand is what you are trying to achieve here, even if (and thats a very very small if) you get your way and the banks listen and withdraw funding to the oil, gas and coal industries, what do you think is going to happen?
Well I can tell you what would happen. Withdrawing the funding means these companies will fail. If they fail, who will provide electricity? No one – because we have no resources at the moment able to sustain the world. We do not have enough wind turbines, solar panels etc etc.
And how do you make things like solar panels, wind turbines – you need to mine, smelt and manufacture. All requiring electricity, and surprise surprise, you can only get that from these power stations you have closed down.
Even if the world decides to rely on wind turbines, you get idiots who start complaining that they are an eye sore etc etc.. You just cant win.
What your issue should be is the issue that there is not enough focus on renewable energy, and this is an issue with companies that supply energy at the moment. They should be investing more money into sustainable energy production. And they can only do this if they have money to do so.
And what about yourselves, can you tell me that all of you at the camp are living in a sustainable manner? Did you not take transport of some sort to get to the venue? Did you not use things like mobile phones to organise this (which im not sure whether you are aware, but contains a very rare material that is mined?)
So please, stop trying to make out that Climate Camp is trying to save the world because you are not. You are all so selfish, and all so hypocritical and its sad to see so many of you wasting your time, being a nuisance and causing taxpayers more money to cover the costs of policing you.
Strongly opposed on August 20, 2010
Oh by the way, the material I was talking about is Coltan.
Look it up.
And by your logic, because you have bought mobile phones, you are funding the mining of this material, which by your logic, means the blood of many who die mining this material is in your hands. The blood of many in conflict zones caused by this material is in your hands.
So unless you really believe in your cause, you should all recycle your mobile phones. Oh and that also goes for your laptops, and tents which are made of plastic (which comes from Oil if you didnt know) and you cars, and homes and the list goes on and on and one.
Strongly opposed on August 20, 2010
well thanks, because of your decision to cause damage to the property at gogar today, the decision to close the on site nursery for the protection of children there was a correct one. Unfortunately for you the unintended consequence of this is that the parents who have to work (rather than swan about the country playing silly buggers and creating chaos as they don’t have a real life, only morals and ideals which somehow you can live off) as we have families to support, jobs to do, have had to detour miles around edinburgh for alternatives, most importantly disrupting the children and through the additional travel, creating more damage to the environment. you do not gain my support by distrupting innocent families in this way.
fedup of you lot on August 20, 2010
Looking through your photos… look at this – PROPANE!!!
http://tweetphoto.com/39947449
Where do you think that comes from?! A sustainable source?
Hmm..hypocrites? I think so.
Thumbs down.
Strongly opposed on August 20, 2010
Your protests are a drain on UK Government resources which are less than zero to start with NO doubt the peaceful protest will result in a stramash and people getting hurt.
For UK Government to recover the money used to bailout we need RBS to get on with their business.
Can you tell I have no time for protests.
NO time for Protests on August 20, 2010
Oh no!
Are you people serious suggesting that a group of human beings has committed some form of hypocrisy? You mean they aren’t perfect eco-warriors who can magically float to Edinburgh on the backs of Giant Butterflies?
Wow, there go my expectations.
And I thought Climate Camp was all about being utterly perfect in every way shape and form. Turns out its just a load of hippies raising awareness about renewable energy on a massive scale, doing all those workshops, living communally, giving the local community a once-in-a-lifetime chance to have an eco-camp on their doorstep and go to all those free events, protesting against injustice, having the time of their lives, etc.
Tish,pish!
sarcastic git on August 20, 2010
“giving the local community a once-in-a-lifetime chance to have an eco-camp on their doorstep and go to all those free events”
Local community? At the weekend? At Gogarburn?
Hahahaha…
Im sure the police will enjoying seeing your camps but apart from them, I doubt you will be getting much of the “locals” coming to it!
And yes, I do expect you not to be hypocrites, considering you’re trying to make yourselves look like Green Fighters.
Thumbs down!
Strongly opposed on August 20, 2010
“She was arrested, and an ambulance was called to facilitate removal.”
Good use of public resources, well done.
Again, thumbs down.
Strongly opposed on August 20, 2010
I am a Green voter but my aunt and sister both work at RBS. I think we all feel you guys are well meaning but whoever is pulling your chain and directing the traffic are just trying to jump on the bandwagon of attacking the bank after all its trouble. You say the bank is lying but for those of us whose families depend on it they have been great employers. I do hope your own attacks aren’t lies or half truths because all the made up stuff from that Uni down south made me have to justify my green beliefs in a way i never expected. I hope you arent making us just like another movement and politicians and lying just to get publicity.
Brian Greenock on August 20, 2010
” Wow. If I were a shareholder, I’d be worried about his inability to keep track of $18 billion.”
If it turned out you were wrong and the bank didnt lend 18bn to tar sands would you pack up and go home?
Working Class of Edinburgh on August 20, 2010
“raising awareness about renewable energy on a massive scale, doing all those workshops, living communally, giving the local community a once-in-a-lifetime chance to have an eco-camp on their doorstep and go to all those free events, protesting against injustice, having the time of their lives, etc.”
That sounds great! Before I pack my bag though, my social conscience and moral compass are important to me (as they obviously are to you)so can you confirm…
- we won’t be intimidating anyone
- we won’t be limiting anyone’s freedom of movement, speech or belief
- we won’t be damaging property of any person or organisation
Before your scoff, the last one’s really important to me because, as we’re all aware, the procurement of raw materials, manufacture of replacement property, transportation of that property, fitting and testing of that property has an impact on our environment which, of course, is contrary to what we’re campaigning for.
I excitedly await your reply!
count me in! on August 20, 2010
Mankind has lost touch with nature.It is only when, perchance, we notice a beautiful flower or take a walk in the countryside, that we are momentarily ‘re-connected’with this exquisite gift.
It is a deeply natural thing that you are doing.
Defending our Mother.
Nature.
Naturally
martino on August 20, 2010
@count me in
Climate Camp have already damanged property – so much for a peaceful protest.
Strongly opposed on August 20, 2010
I totally agree with where you’re coming from. The capitalist system is at fault. Social inequality, environmental destruction, global warming, consumerism, work culture, personal debt, ……….
I applaud climate camp for making people sit bit and take notice and possibly even think about some of these issues for even 30 seconds.
I’m fine with direct action as long as it is right action and the consequences and implication are fully thought through.
Well played climate camp
sympathiser on August 20, 2010
Why don’t you get a job and leave the RBS staff to get on with theirs. You are a bunch of idiots. Let’s hope it rains for the next 3 days and you get a wash for the first time this year!
Soap dodger on August 20, 2010
Nothing like perpetuating stereotypes!
sympathiser on August 20, 2010
If the cap fits!
Soap dodger on August 20, 2010
what will be happening to day at camp can any one come and join you lot ,,
tic toc on August 21, 2010
Leave the wildlife alone you MORON! If your idea of sustainability is interfering with natures creatures by displacing them and then traumatising them by picking them up and moving them where you think they ought to be you need an education and quickly. This more than anything makes it blindingly obvious you are simply protestors not environmentalists or ecologists and are quite frankly about as ignorant as it gets when it comes to living in harmony with the environment.
Anyone with a brain would have realised that setting up a camp for hundreds of people where there is a large frog population is going to totally disrupt their habitat. You should be prosecuted you imbeciles. You are the environments worst nightmare come true.
Sustainability on August 21, 2010
Dear Bernard, your glee at saying you are stretching your delightful camp across RBS land is somewhat ill at odds with the legal and national customs of your host country. Were you not so ignorant you would know that it is in fact “our” land not RBS’s. You may be unaware but this “them and us”mentality is quite common in England which has different laws and culture. It is fortunately different in Scotland, where nobody actually owns land, the only thing the own is the title. Additionaly since you are so keen to point out that RBS is 80% publicly owned you must in fact concede that it really is “our” land and doubly so. Now that you and your friends have camped all across my and your land perhaps you would be good enough to refrain from damaging it and causing us all expense.
I should also imagine that the reason your (I really mean our) campsite is so lovely is because it is landscaped and paid for by the organisation you profess to despise. Please therefore enjoy our campsite at our expense but be aware you are not our guest.
As for anyone knowing anything about your arrival please give yourself a pat on the back. You truly are a genius for having outsmarted the evil empire.
Land on August 21, 2010
My brother works for Scottish Water and as I understand they refused to give you access to their supply. In a twist of irony RBS offered you access to their own water supply to prevent any health and safety issues for your camp which you accepted.
How can you protest against a company who have been so accommodating to your camp ensuring you have a free right to demonstrate peacefully and then you lot go and cause criminal damage.
Go home and leave our city alone ya bunch of tax dodging hippies!
I hate Climate Camp on August 21, 2010
Let’s hope the RBS staff pee in the water!
Soap dodger on August 21, 2010
Peed in it? I did more than that!
Cookie on August 21, 2010
If the frogs belong in the trees as you see it, then what are they doing elsewhere?
Frog Lover on August 21, 2010
Do the organisers think peaceful protest is scaring and intimidating RBS staff and damaging the building?
Soap dodger on August 21, 2010
Battleships on the Water of Leith! Helicopters armed to the teeth! Tanks! Guns!Loud Popular Music! Suicide Bombers! All paid for by my booze and fags taxes! You Eco-Warriors really have gone too far this time. Bombing,Shooting,Murdering and Pillaging your way into Gogarburns’ RBS village Post Office. Who do you think you are! America.
And the Frogs! this war has nothing to do with the French! Leave them alone!
the spokesman for the Scottish Democratic Nazi Party was right when he said you’re a threat to all we in the truly Civilised World hold dear. Money. And Power. I dont have either of these, but that doesnt stop my Democratic Human right to be Bone-Idle.I MOAN constantly about Everyone and Everything but I do nothing to CHANGE anything I moan about. Inside I am weak, sad, and afraid. But I like football, so I am a real Man.
Sun Reader on August 21, 2010
Gogarburn is an open campus, the site of your camp is hardly the greatest example of direct action. You can catch the X48 to the side entrance for goodness sake!
What your doing will not change anything, if it makes you feel better then bully for you but don’t insult the rest of us by trying to make out you are following in the foot steps of Ghandi. A man who actually made a difference to the world.
My Cat is Ginger on August 21, 2010
Ghandi changed things by being positive and active, not moaning about other people. Get a life.
ps, thanks for the bus tip
x48 on August 21, 2010
How renewable is your propane gas canister?
Soap dodger on August 21, 2010
X48 you are so right. Intimidation is a great way to get your point across. Let’s hope you never find yourself on the receiving end one day. Funny how you the taxpayer own the bank. Can’t imagine any of you have ever paid tax!
Soap dodger on August 21, 2010
Hi can I just say that Climate Camp is a waste of time. Reason peoeple like me are the majority and think you lot are a bunch of tree hugging vegatarian vegan muppets.
Nat King Coal on August 21, 2010
Pheweeee! I thought the pong from the chicken farm was a bit riper than usual today but no! it’s the mighty whiff coming from the great unwashed at the ‘Climate Camp’ in Gogarburn. Maybe you could take a wash in the burn folks – watch out for the rats though…
Whaur's ma gas mask? on August 21, 2010
Thanks to people like you out there ‘making a difference’ I can rest easy knowing you’re offsetting my carbon footprint whilst I drive the 5 minutes walk to the local shop for a newspaper in my 4×4 with the air con on and windows open having left all the lights and TV on in my house because it was too much effort to turn them off.
Grateful on August 21, 2010
What a waste of time and money! I will start to listen when you all start behaving like the majority of the rest of us. You are breaking the law, you are wasting emergency services resources. Intefering with ordinary peoples lives trying to earn an honest living. Some of you should start doing that also. How many of you have cars use public transport, electricity ? think about it you are all hypocrits! When you start paying tax then you’ll understand. What your doing is so last year. GROW UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GROW UP!!!! on August 21, 2010
My own personal opinion – you “protesters” are a bunch of doped-up unemployed wasters who seem to think that taking drugs and dancing in a field to 80s German techno somehow aids your cause. The bank offered a face-to-face meet to give you a chance to air your greavances, and you turned it down in favour of causing criminal damage, trespasing and getting even further off your face on drugs. This is where your tax money is going, in benefits supporting you muppets and to the police who have to try and keep the peace.
To L&B police – order 500 taser guns and deliver to St Andrew Square and Gogarburn, Royal Mile and wherever else you losers are planning your pathetic protests. Happy camping hippies, hope it rains!
Tax payer on August 21, 2010
I really hope climate camp will take notice of how many people are opposed to thier actions. We (the public) have heard you, we’ve seen you, and we don’t agree. So please pack up and go, and consider your campaign a complete fail, because if anything, you have come out of this looking worse than the banks. You are all hypocrites, and your only real reason for your actions are for selfish reasons. And what is worse, you have put shame on environmentalists out there who are able to convey a message without violence, harm or terror, who will now be looked upon in the same light as you.
Shame on you all. Thumbs down.
Strongly opposed on August 21, 2010
How about a reply from some spokes person from the camp about all the valid points being made here?????????????? no did’nt think so, bunch of hypocritical chancers
Cavey on August 21, 2010
Beacause, put simply, Climate Camp have no other room for any other opinion but their own. This is not democracy or mature debate, it’s dictatorship, and that is what climate camp is involved in – Hypocritical dictatorship.
Tighthead on August 21, 2010
“We (the public) have heard you, we’ve seen you, and we don’t agree”.
Really? You don’t agree that it’s wrong to trash the environment and poison people? If it were your family forced from their homes and suffering with cancer, would you agree then? Would you write a polite letter to RBS and hope that would do did the trick?
“You are all hypocrites, and your only real reason for your actions are for selfish reasons.”
Climate Camp activists are about as far as you can get from being selfish. They are doing this for indigenous people around the world who are loosing their homes and livelihoods and suffering life threatening disease due to fossil fuel industries that provide the energy to allow us to continue to live this unsustainable life. They’re doing it for the rising number of people affected by floods and other severe weather events and ultimately for you, since climate change will affect us all eventually.
You can sit there and criticise and carry on your daily lives as if there was no worry in the world, but one day you’ll look back and realise you should have done something – just like the government and the banks will. Problem is, you don’t want to believe it now, because believing it means you have to take action and that’s just too much effort and you’ve got better things to do. Sadly, most people won’t do a thing until it’s too late.
climate camp supporter on August 21, 2010
wow, can you hear yourselves? The great unwashed, get a job, pay your taxes, blah blah. You sure put across a convincing argument of cliched bullshit!
cliche on August 21, 2010
We support the Camp. We think its Great. Well Done!
Tartan Army on August 21, 2010
Interesting how Climate Camp still avoid the questions raise above re your own damage to the climate cause by this camp alone – we all know you didn’t walk there, we all know lorries delivered your equipment, that the water you’re using (courtesty of your ‘hosts’) hasn’t come direct from a spring without any treatment, that you’re taking advantage of technology and equipment that isn’t ‘green’.
Out of interest, is superglue bio-degradable?! Have you sourced a special superglue that doesn’t give off toxins?! Let’s hope so, because no doubt from all you’ve said so far, you’re planning to use a lot of Monday.
Let He Who Is Without Sin Cast The First Stone!!
Go home and learn some negotiating skills, because causing £1,000s of damage trying to smash your way into offices (that are in theory owned by us all), intimidating those who are trying to earn a living, and causing disruption for small children really isn’t a great way to get your point listened to and considered. Have you actually thought about how that group of children will be affected?
We live in a democracy, if you have an issue, lobby the Government, and get them to legislate, really not worth lobbying the businesses that they set the rules for.
Go Home!! on August 21, 2010
“Really? You don’t agree that it’s wrong to trash the environment and poison people? If it were your family forced from their homes and suffering with cancer, would you agree then? Would you write a polite letter to RBS and hope that would do did the trick”
You really didn’t get the point did you. We don’t agree the methods you are using. We don’t agree with climate camp because you are a bunch of hypocrites who are trying to be green gods when you yourselves are part of the problem. So please, like someone else suggested, answer the valid points we have raised instead of replying with cliched BS because that’s way too easy to do, and does by trick anyone. Well apart from those impressionable individuals in your camp who will grow up and see the light soon enough.
And trust me, I do my art in trying to minimise my impact of living. This in turn reduces demand for gas, oil and coal. What I do not do is cause a lot of damage, cause a lot of unnecessary travel etc like you have so you can have a party which is increasing demand for resources therefore requiring investment in place like the tar pit.
So please get your head out of the clouds and see how it really works, in the real world. Otherwise if you really cared go lice like the Amish community do, because they are truly unselfish when it comes to the environment.
Again thumbs down.
Strongly opposed on August 22, 2010
@ Strongly opposed
I’m not at climate camp and I’ve never been, so I’m not qualified to comment on whether the people there are “hypocrites who are trying to be green gods”. It would seem unlikely though – mostly I would guess they are just like the rest of us, doing what they can and knowing there is more that they could do, but finding it challenging. My little sister is there, and I know she fits firmly into that category.
And regarding the implication that the camp is itself bad for the environment because they are consuming resources, well, much as you may wish these people didn’t exist during the rest of the year, actually they do. And they consume resources then too, because they’re not perfect. Furthermore, I would guess that their footprint whilst at the camp is smaller than their normal footprint (e.g. for my sister who normally lives in a heated building and uses public transport for 2+ hours per day).
And yes, these people travelled there, some of them from quite far away, but most of them probably considered which method of transport would be best, and are regarding it as their summer holiday, and it’s obviously a lot less damaging than people who travel by air to Europe for multiple long weekends over the summer.
Besides which, as I understand it, climate camp isn’t a party, it’s a chance for people who have common interests and goals to meet up, and share ideas and motivate each other. They can attend workshops teaching them about non-direct methods, in order that they can be more effective at these, and the direct methods that they currently feel driven to become unnecessary.
Desperately hoping on August 22, 2010
* and the direct methods that they currently feel drive to use become unnecessary
Desperately hoping on August 22, 2010
I dont have a problem with people having the right to protest and put there point across however 100 people rushing at the door of RBS or people banging on windows frightening staff and spray painting the RBS sign sounds more like eco terrorism and thats just whats happend so far what about Monday who you gonna scare/intimadate with your supposed peaceful protest then.
Alan on August 22, 2010
“Why don’t you get a job and leave the RBS staff to get on with theirs.”
They should make this person Prime Minister. Somewhere around 2.5 million people in the UK are unemployed and 600000 public sector lay-offs are projected over the next 5 years. Idiot.
“We (the public) have heard you, we’ve seen you, and we don’t agree. So please pack up and go, and consider your campaign a complete fail, because if anything, you have come out of this looking worse than the banks.”
As a member of the public I regretfully was not made aware that we would be composing a harsh and poorly punctuated dismissal of the Climate Camp. Besides, fuck you. If you think that a few dozen trolls on the climate camp website constitutes the general public: you are sadly mistaken.
Anonymous on August 22, 2010
“We live in a democracy, if you have an issue, lobby the Government, and get them to legislate, really not worth lobbying the businesses that they set the rules for”.
Since when has the government acted strongly enough, quickly enough? Direct action is a result of the democratic system failing. There are plenty of organisations who are lobbying the government but it’s not working, clearly. So then what? You say you don’t agree with their methods, but when all else fails the only other option is to take direct action.
Now, all this about hypocrisy; first of all, lobbying the government also requires travel, paper, printing, phones, computers… Everything we do uses resources so of course this camp has some impact on the environment. It’s impossible to do anything without having some impact; you just have to minimise it as much as possible, as they have at climate camp by having renewable energy, living in tents (ie with no electricity), vegan food, travelling by public transport as much as possible etc.
There’s a rule in law that says that it’s acceptable to cause a small crime in order to prevent a larger one, which I think applies here too. People travelling to climate camp, a little damage to property; in the grand scheme of things is so insignificant when you compare it to the massive destruction and human rights abuses caused by RBS and the companies it funds. So, a few frogs have had to be moved, how many frogs do you think are totally wiped out when great swathes of forest are destroyed? It’s regrettable that staff at RBS feel scared, but there is no physical violence towards them or threats to their lives, not like there is to those people living on the land that fossil fuel companies want to exploit – they are in real fear for their lives, and that’s totally justified since many have been killed simply for trying to protect their homes, families and way of life. If I had to choose, I’d rather be the RBS employee.
Sure, everyone who cares about the environment could go live like the Amish, and whilst that would reduce personal impact on the environment it would do nothing to stop the likes of RBS. You talk about reducing demand, and that’s a valid point, but sadly it’s unlikely that enough people will make a big enough change in their lives to make any real impact. You think RBS or the fossil fuel companies have noticed that everyone now uses energy efficient light bulbs?
What you all need to do is go visit the camp or get involved in the movement; then you’ll be qualified in making a judgement about it. They have created a low impact, peaceful, supportive, creative community in Edinburgh this weekend, one where everyone cooks for each other, eats together, is kind to each other and shares ideas and visions of the future; if you were to experience it you might feel differently. At the moment, you’ve just fallen for the old stereotypes and media hype.
I get that you don’t like direct action and I doubt that I’ll convince you otherwise, but please, just for a minute, try to put yourself in the shoes of the people who are really suffering right now. Imagine your home and whole way of life has been destroyed, that your community is suffering high rates of disease. What would you do? What would you hope others would do? This is an emergency. People in your village are dead. And no-one is listening; the banks, the companies, the government – no-one cares. Tell me, what would you do?
I know I’d fight tooth and nail to protect the ones I love and I’d hope that people who genuinely cared would support me; I’m quite sure that I wouldn’t give a damn about a few thousand pounds damage to the multi-billion pound company that caused such devastation to so many. What about you?
(I am a climate camp supporter, not official spokesperson)
climate camp supporter on August 22, 2010
Actually, you guys are very lucky indeed that there were none of the old style traditional miners from Ormiston there yesterday. They most certainly, like you, believed in “direct action” only their “direct action” would have been painfully directed at you.
And Climate Camp girls – have you ever had to deal with miners’ wives? Let me tell you, they could dish oot a michty skelp. You’d have had no chance.
Luck people indeed.
Tighthead on August 22, 2010
Climate Camp Supporter – “There’s a rule in law that says that it’s acceptable to cause a small crime in order to prevent a larger one, which I think applies here too.”
What absolute rubbish. Clearly Scots Law is something you fail to understand. No-one has the right to break the law, not even you.
Tighthead on August 22, 2010
If you wish to take a moral high ground and campaign against unethical investments by RBS, then you need to do it in a peaceful and lawful way.
The “Direct Action” you are planning seems to be nothing more than vandalism and criminal damage verging on terrorism.
Destroying buildings and causing expense to RBS the police and the council (all public money now) means less money available for investment in other causes.
Wanton destruction is the exact opposite of Reduce, Re-use and Recyle.
All you will do is damage the efforts of all real environmentalists who are working in a positive and productive way.
You are not helping the environment. Your anarchistic methods are turning the general public away from green ideals.
Stop using Environmental Concern as a cover anarchism. That will cause far more damage to the planet in the long run.
a lawful campaigner on August 22, 2010
tighthead; agreed the lawful excuse defense does not apply in Scotland, I was simply referring to it as a concept. I’m sure most people would agree that it’s ok to cause minimal harm in order to prevent massive destruction.
climate camp supporter on August 22, 2010
why is it that it’s always the activists that are called the terrorists, criminals and vandals when it’s the corporations and governments who are responsible for trashing the planet – they are the ones that deserve the name calling, not those who aim to stop them.
confused on August 22, 2010
Climate Camp supporter – “referring to it as a concept”. No, you gave mis-information which does little to bolster the moral argument you claim to possess. You were wrong, be adult enough to admit it and be careful in your chgoice of word.
I do not know where you come from to be here but the law in Scotland is very specific about it. The Climate Camp web pages give specific advice, try reading it before you speak.
Anonymous on August 22, 2010
Reading this I wonder how many of you critics have actually visited the Climate Camp? I did yesterday with my husband and children and was impressed with the peaceful, friendly and orderly fashion in which the camp was organised. The people whom I spoke to were thoughtful, cared about their planet and wanted to do something to demonstrate that.
All this petty knit-picking over pennies used by campers – are you missing the point? RBS and some other banks are pumping billions of pounds into unsustainable and unethical projects around the world. It is that that we are trying to stop.
I only wish more people would make the effort to go and visit the camp and hear first hand the many and diverse reasons for protesting. Don’t be put off by not having been to a camp before – I hadn’t and was pleasantly surprised at how welcoming everyone is. If enough people go to these camps coverage will be greater and the government will have to sit up and listen.
The government still have a chance to turn RBS, owned mostly by us, the taxpayer, into a bank more like Triodos or the Co-operative. Why are the politicians so spineless? We do not want more short term profiteering at the expense of the planet and its people.
Gail Fraser on August 22, 2010
“Imagine your home and whole way of life has been destroyed, that your community is suffering high rates of disease. What would you do? What would you hope others would do? This is an emergency. People in your village are dead. And no-one is listening; the banks, the companies, the government – no-one cares. Tell me, what would you do?”
And then we are back to the point of how you camping on the grounds of RBS going to change anything?
It wont, because whatever you do against the banks, there will always be someone else there willing to fund these companies.
We are in a state of transition, where these so called ‘evil’ companies are trying to invest in producing cleaner energy – for you to use. And without funding, this will end. Full stop. Then what? Are you able to produce solar panels, wind farms etc on a scale large enough to sustain the world? No. So like it or not, you need them.
And this will not happen overnight? Companies are perfectly aware that resources are going to run out and are investing in alternative energies. Companies are aware that if people do not agree with their methods, customers will leave. What companies however do not care about, is people like yourselves, getting violent trying to terrorise people into following your idealistic beliefs.
And its a shame, if you really wanted to make an impact, the festival season in Edinburgh would have been a perfect opportunity to set up stall in the royal mile to speak to people and inform them about your issue. In a peaceful manner, you could have reached a worldwide audience, who would have respected you for your beliefs and method of conveying in.
Instead, because of some of you who are claiming you are being peaceful, have already shown you are unable to be peaceful as there has been arrests made and damage caused. As for what you are going to get up to tomorrow, who knows, but it would not be surprising if people get hurt. And for these reasons, you have lost of a of support from the general public who now see you, as someone else has mentioned before, borderline terrorists.
“As a member of the public I regretfully was not made aware that we would be composing a harsh and poorly punctuated dismissal of the Climate Camp. Besides, fuck you. If you think that a few dozen trolls on the climate camp website constitutes the general public: you are sadly mistaken.”
I like how you have to resort to picking on punctuation to make a point. What a moron. And no I was not referring to the people on this website as the general public. I’m referring to the people who are not attending your little campsite because they do not agree with your methods. I’m referring to the thousands and thousands of people who condemn your methods of violence to get a point across. So unfortunately for you, the majority of the public think you are a nuisance and add nothing to society apart from draining resources and causing harm.
Final point – all of us use electricity and gas. So like it or not, you are all in essence funding these ‘evil’ companies. So you are all as guilty as the banks.
Thumbs down.
Strongly opposed on August 22, 2010
@ Gail Fraser
Honestly, if Climate Camp had remained peaceful throughout their time protesting, I would have. Unfortunately, they have shown they are not responsible enough to do so. I am always in favour of doing my bit to help the environment, and would have liked to have gone to see what the camp can offer. But I do not agree with their methods, which is why I am so strongly opposed.
Like I mentioned before, if they opened a stall on the royal mile, and spoke to people, rather than force themselves upon others, I would have been receptive. Instead, I see Climate Camp in the same light as any other organisation who have to resort to violence to get their point across.
Strongly opposed on August 22, 2010
“I’m sure most people would agree that it’s ok to cause minimal harm in order to prevent massive destruction.”
Only if the petty acts of vansdalism that are glorified as “die-wect ak-shoo-un” actually have an effect, otherwise they’re just acts of onanism……
Let’s hope that all the airheaded Jocastas and Tarquins sheltering in their B&Q child labour and petrochemical devised tents at Gogarburn can understand this and refrain from indulging in any infantile (I was going to say puerile bit they’re not clever enough)stunts to-morrow or they’ll find themselves with a criminal record that may well affect their chances in the City/Interior Decoration.
Edinburger on August 22, 2010
I’m sorry to hear that a few individuals have caused damage to the building, but they definitely do not represent the hundreds that are there protesting against the taxpayers money being used to fund the destruction of sensitive areas. Funding from the major banks enabled the Gulf disaster, yet it’s alright, because it creates jobs?
I think the argument that building wind farms and other forms of renewable energy creates a carbon footprint unacceptable to general society is a spurious one. Yes, there’s a carbon footprint in the creation of these power stations, but once they are up and running, that’s the end of the carbon output, whereas coal/gas stations continually spew out carbon emissions, as well as the environmental damage caused by acquiring the fuel for them.
Yes, Scotlands wealth (and the rest of the UK) is based on the oil and gas industry in the North Sea, a high risk form of energy creation (not only to the environment, but to the platform workers) but there is clear evidence that the UK is in a prime location on the planet to create energy through renewable sources – we are on the Gulf Stream, we have suitable tidal energy for capture, we’re a bloody windy country, so why rely on ripping the Earth apart to cook our dinner and heat our homes?
The Tar Sands Issue in Canada is a shocking tale of destruction for profit. A naturally beautiful landscape is being destroyed, a community is slowly being killed, wildlife is being destroyed, all for a dying fuel source that it costs more to acquire than the energy it will provide.
Imagine – a drilling company finds oil under Fort William, but the damage it would cause to the local environment means that the town and its locale would need to be destroyed. The loch would become so polluted that no aquatic life would survive, the people living in the area would end up with various cancers and respiratory conditions and the pollution would affect those living in Glasgow (on top of the pollution already in Glasgow). Would it still be alright to drill there? Now, add to that the stripping of the land in order to more cost-effectively grab the fuel, to increase the profit margin. Would you still be OK about RBS investing into the company doing the damage?
That’s what they’re doing in Canada. But apparently it’s OK because it’s not in your back yard and its keeping the price of petrol a little bit lower.
And before the cliches kick in, I don’t drive, I live in a rural area with no train or bus service, so need to walk 3 miles to buy groceries. I pay taxes, and have a social conscience.
Paul B on August 22, 2010
I’m afraid that any support I might have for those who are concerned about our future is utterly destroyed by those who choose to break the law in MY country.
Just what are you going to do when Yellowstone Park blows?
tighthead on August 22, 2010
@strongly opposed
So, you’re telling me that if your whole community was devastated and your children were dying of cancer you’d set up a stall and chat to people about it. Way to change the world dude!!
climate camp supporter on August 22, 2010
climate camp supporter – you really have got a nerve to assume that you have the right to DICTATE and comit CRIME to get your point over.
Cousland and Ormiston are communities that exist because of coal and what you want to do is to destry those communitioes. How dare you?
tighthead on August 22, 2010
Tighthead, you have a great imagination! At what point did I dictate to anyone, commit a crime or say that I wanted to destroy Cousland and Ormiston?
climate camp supporter on August 22, 2010
“I know I’d fight tooth and nail to protect the ones I love and I’d hope that people who genuinely cared would support me; I’m quite sure that I wouldn’t give a damn about a few thousand pounds damage to the multi-billion pound company that caused such devastation to so many.” – I think that is a call to commit crime….. but a wafer thin justification in saying that it is OK if you think it is for a greater cause.
Well its not OK. Oh, I’d also fight tooth and nail to protect my community ….. Mining and fishing community against anyone who thinks they can impose their view on my community. See, I have the same values as you. Good, eh?
tighthead on August 22, 2010
finally we are getting somewhere!
climate camp supporter on August 22, 2010
,,,, but from opposing ends.
tighthead on August 22, 2010
perhaps, but it comes down to the same thing; the rights of vulnerable people are worth fighting for.
You say you’d fight tooth and nail if anyone “imposed their views” on your community, what if the lives of your community were threatened? What would you do then? How much is too much when lives are at stake?
climate camp supporter on August 22, 2010
“Both times were educational, inspirational, peaceful and generally rather beautiful memories. Intelligent, empathetic, and empassioned, fully alive compassionate people and brave young souls doing all they can to ‘improve the situation’ and having a great +ve impact, and working and living together in harmony”.
WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP – peaceful is the last thing on your mind when your idiot supporters glue their hands to desks!! Who the f does that?? Answer – compassionate, brave souls who are intelligent and empathetic. HA – utter bollocks.
Do you really think people believe the crap you all spout????
AND AS FOR THE “CLIMATE CAMP SUPPORTER” above stating it is acceptable to commit a small crime to prevent a larger one – what large crime has been/ is being committed here? I have a sound knowledge of scots law and I cant find one. Surely if there was it would be investigated. Or are you of the opinion there is a conspiracy in place and the police are covering up the ‘large’ crimes of the banking institutions.
Next you’ll tell us Elvis is alive, riding Shergar with Lord Lucan by his side and Armstrong never actually landed on the moon!!#
Here’s reality for you. Banks are here to stay, they will always be here regardless of whatever childish ‘direct action’ you idiots choose to take.
Here’s a plan….get the police to round you all up in that happy camp and send you to Afghanistan to fight terror abroad. Surely the Taliban are the real enemy. I am not aware of RBS employing suicide bombers or planting land mines (although a few secreted in the site you clowns currently occupy would have been a ‘blast’). Lets see how your direct action affects them!
GO HOME – YOU ARE EVERYTHING THAT IS WRONG WITH THIS COUNTRY AND YOU HAVE FAR LESS SUPPORT THAN YOUR OVER INFLATED EGO’S CAN POSSIBLY IMAGINE.
Here endeth the lesson.
HYPO CRITE on August 22, 2010
“what large crime has been/ is being committed here?”
Mass scale pollution of waterways with toxic, carcinogenic waste, for a start.
climate camp supporter on August 22, 2010
tighthead, actually we are not on opposing sides. Yes, I and others, want to see the end of mining for coal etc, but none of us blame the miners themselves and none of us want to see them suffer in any way. It’s the companies and government at fault. If the government could replace mining jobs with those in renewable energy industries perhaps we could all be happy, the planet included.
climate camp supporter on August 22, 2010
You accuse the Camp for Climate Action of not being violent and yet you suggest sending the campers out to war in Afghanistan and make light of planting a bomb under the camp. Whose the real violent one? Until you have visited the camp, keep your opinions to yourself
HYPO CRITE is a hypocrite on August 22, 2010
Renewable energy? That’s a laugh. I take it you know about Crystal Rig. How Many local jobs were created after the construction phase? Let me save you the trouble of trying to look it up…..the answer is 2. Yes, 2 jobs. For a windfarm in East Lothian (I take it you knew that) which, at best, operates at 25% efficiency against a nuclear power station on its horizon at 84%. Sums, anyone?
tighthead on August 22, 2010
OK – where can I find that ‘crime’?
IE what statute is that one in?
You say for a start. Are there other ‘made up’ crimes you would like to share with those bleary eyed enough to read through your rhetoric???????
Finally – I had NO idea all those words (the crime name) were the fault of a bank.
That is it. I’m finished with RBS, damn them all. The next tenner I withdraw from an ATM with their logo I’m ripping up….no wait – I think that is actually a real crime.
Completes my arguement – IDIOTS. There is no point debating this further, you lot are losers. Your actions will change nothing. It’s time you started to realise this. Honestly, you think you’ll stop RBS. They will crush you like flies, and they crush a lot of flies which will no doubt anger you even more!!!!
HYPO CRITE on August 22, 2010
You guys have lost the plot, i just heard you’ve been smashing windows with hammers and to beat it all – THE NURSERY IS CLOSED. Well done, safe home to wherever it is you come from, you’ve changed nothing and you look like what you are, well meaning middle clash posh kids with a hard core of anarchists – a mob in search of a cause – and those of you who don’t end up in prison will just be very embarrassed when you eventually grow up.
Local citizen on August 22, 2010
*Sigh* What hope is there for the world. noone gives a shit
no hope on August 22, 2010
LOL – my point is you have constantly demonstrated your propensity for violence and the fact you champion it and condone it.
So go channel your aggression against true axis of evil. Off you all go, no one will miss you here. Judging by the posts above you have no support and this is your own forum for goodness sake!
Where did the word bomb come into things – oh yes, you stated it by making ridiculous assumptions in your reply. I dont believe the word was ever mentioned before. Then again humour and irony is lost on your types, I should have known better.
HC
TO LORD HAWHAW OF CLIMATE CAMP on August 22, 2010
“Two women have been arrested after climate change protesters led a charge on the Royal Bank of Scotland’s Edinburgh headquarters.
More than 100 protesters took part in the action, which also involved an oil-like substance being thrown at the building and windows being smashed.”
Ah – the mindless thuggery commences.
Come on Tarquin, let’s bweak some windows – top wheeze – what?
Edinburger on August 22, 2010
What do you suggest then tighthead? Fossil fuels will not last forever, far from it, so what should be done to support these mining communities when it does?
I see Scottish Coal plans to extract 2 million tonnes of coal from a new site at Cousland but it doesn’t look like everyone is happy about that.
climate camp supporter on August 22, 2010
“What do you suggest then tighthead? Fossil fuels will not last forever, far from it, so what should be done to support these mining communities when it does?”
Turn them into ghastly identikit housing projects full of nimby retirees from the Home Counties and folk who aspire to a nice New Town double upper.
Oh no – that’s already been done.
Edinburger on August 22, 2010
HYPOCRITE, environmental pollution is a crime, check out the Environmental Protection Act. For example, BP have been sued and fined a number of times due to oil spills and pollution caused by their refineries. Not made up, google it. The banks fund these industries, that makes them responsible.
climate camp supporter on August 22, 2010
A lot of hot air and uninformed vitriol seems to be generated. Sounds to me as though some locals noses have been put out of joint which is such a different attitude to community’s near other climate camp gatherings. I’m local to heathrow and was more than happy to put up with some minor inconvenience so that Climate Camp could highlight serious problems and challenges with the Airline industry.
Similarly in Edinburgh try and look beyond whether a window is broken or someone is sleeping in a tent derived from petroleum products – it’s the big issues that matter.
Our suicidal rush towards climate catastrophe is being fuelled (pun) by the financial investment decisions of institutions such as RBS. Oil extraction from tar sands is hugely energy intensive and is destroying large tracts of Canadian wilderness. Those billions of dollars could be spent developing clean energy technologies. It takes brave people like the climate campers to raise the issues and change attitudes. You may regard them as the lunatic fring now but in 20 years time what they are saying will probably (hopefully) be part of establishment wisdom.
Mike on August 22, 2010
“The banks fund these industries, that makes them responsible.”
Is this the kind of stuff that our dumbed down education system teaches these days?
Do you actually have any evidence (even a single shred would do but please Google “evidence” to find out what that means in a Civila and Criminal Law context) that any bank anywhere in the world received a pitch along the lines of “hello, I’d like you to lend me 900 Million quid to fund some illegal activities”, folllowing which they lent money to be used for that function?
No.
That’d be like you asking mater and pater for 500 quid to take Jocasta and Squiffy away for the week-end and then the police prosecuting them because you spent the money on hammers to carry out some random window smashing……..
Edinburger on August 22, 2010
I like to think I can see both sides and I was remaining open minded about the protest.
I would support the protest if they didn’t terrorise innocent people (ie RBS staff) AND did no damage.
However I’ve just heard that they have broken windows and marked the walls.
This hugely disappointing behaviour will turn many against the protesters, and they will remain a loony fringe, rather than having the impact they so desperately want.
Shame on you.
Shame on these people on August 22, 2010
Edinburger, you really think the banks don’t know what these industries are up to? Tar sands have been polluting the waterways and causing cancer for years, yet RBS continues funding it. There’s no excuse.
climate camp supporter on August 22, 2010
Leading financial journalist, Ian Fraser, writes eloquently about RBS and it’s involvement in destroying communities and why people unhappy with Climate Camp’s targeting of RBS must take a look at the bigger picture: http://www.ianfraser.org/rbs-under-siege-over-environmental-vandalism/
Simon on August 22, 2010
After reading all of this, I’ve come to the conclusion that you climate campers are nothing but idealists who although have the right idea, are unable to carry out any form of peaceful resolution. I’m done with discussing this, and I hope for your sake, and those families in the Canadian areas affected that you do not hurt anyone tomorrow, or damage anymore property, because unfortunately, like it has already, your message is being lost in your actions and this will be remembered for the wrong reasons, and those affected will be forgotten because of you.
So shame on you all, and I hope you can live with this guilt.
Thumbs down.
Strongly opposed on August 22, 2010
Do you have any idea what you looked like on the Royal Mile?!!! People didn’t take you seriously at all and thought you were some kind of weird, demented Fringe act. If you want to be taken seriously by the majority why don’t you grow up, go home, have a shower and above all find yourselves a job. You have done nothing to endear yourselves to the local community, who didn’t want you here in the first place!!! And leave the bloody frogs alone!!!!!
Away on with Yourselves on August 23, 2010
They’re all so proud of themselves and ready to fight for the so called cause that they feel the need to cover their faces! Says it all!! Iif you are going to take direct action then show your faces you gutless cowards. Useless the lot of you!!! Go home!!!
Away on with Yourselves on August 23, 2010
Based on your own methods, RBS employees and the police should be avoiding your climate camp completely, and going and campaigning outside the headquarters of the Co-Op bank – who provide financial services to Camp for Climate action.
Members of your camp have committed criminal damage, vandalism etc to RBS buildings and intimidated RBS staff, so should they protest against this by targeting the company that provides banking services to you?
The Co-Op bank must know that violence, vandalism and other criminal acts occur wherever you hold your camps, so it’s their fault isn’t it?
Should I, as somebody who opposes your methods, then move my accounts and insurance policies from mutual companies to RBS in protest against Co-Ops support of your actions? Should I start shopping in Tesco instead of Scotmid?
No, I realise that your bank is not responsible for your actions.
If you want to make a difference, kick the anarchists and trouble makers out of your camp and target fossil fuel companies, in particular the ones that perform the activities you are campaigning against. Protest and campaign in a peaceful and passive manor. Yes, hand out leaflets, or speak to people on the street to raise awareness.
Any group that is seen to use intimidation and threatening behaviour (as you are seen to do) only lessen public support for their cause.
Before the west took “Direct Action” in Afghanistan, most of the UK population would have been in favour of installing a democratic government instead of the taliban, and securing basic equal rights for the population, and moving their economy away from dependency on illegal activities.
How do you think public opinion has changed following the use of “direct Action”?
One last point – If my child was dying of cancer I’d take them to the hospital and ask for treatment. I wouldn’t stand outside campaigning for less cancer, threatening the employees, smashing the windows and blocking the entrance. Nor would I go to the bank that funds that hospital.
Then, regardless of the success of the treatment, I would be handing out leaflets and trying raise funds and awareness for that form of cancer.
If you want to make a change to the planet, you need to persuade the public that your ideals are worthy of their support.
At the moment – you are making backwards progress.
a lawful campaigner on August 23, 2010
Well done boys and girls, I am not allowed to go to work today because of your peaceful direct action….That leaves me down a days wages, under scots law I can bill you for this but I get the impression most of you have millions of ccj’s already, no , i think i will take my pound of flesh directly……have fun at your next camp, everybody welcome is it?
Keep Looking Back on August 23, 2010
There is a lot of talk of “the Law” and the breaking of it (or not).
Unfortunately, there is no law that protects the Earth and its people as a whole, which is why we all must take responsibility for our actions and their impact on the long-term well-being of the planet.
The concern with RBS (and other banks) is that they continually overlook this responsibility in favour of short-term profit and growth.
Their investments need to be shifted dramatically away from projects that directly jeopardise our future towards projects that will contribute to a more sustainable world for as many people as possible, including ourselves.
Many of the things that we now take for granted in our society were achieved through civil direct action – votes for women, for example – and it is important to maintain a level of perspective on the crimes being perpetrated before dismissing this approach completely.
Justin B on August 23, 2010
It’s also important to appreciate that while all the protesters stand in solidarity with each other in terms of their concerns over climate change, they do not all share the same view on certain types of action and should not therefore be so readily lumped together.
Justin B on August 23, 2010
Yet the organisers of the camp do not condon any other these actions, and instead ask those to consider how far they are willing to take it? You are all the same, and no different to petty criminals. And I hope the police treat you in the same way.
Well done for showing us all you are a bunch of idealist hypocrite criminals that we should pay no attention to.
Strongly opposed on August 23, 2010
Some of your feted Eco-warriors have poured oil on the A8 and City Bypass!? Really? Attempted murder now. Please go home, no-one agrees with, sympathises with or wants you.
GO HOME NOW!!!! on August 23, 2010
I find it amusing that you claim to be protesting on behalf of the tax payer when the majority of you have most likely yet to pay a penny in tax. Why not admit this little exercise is just an excuse for a 5 day jolly for you all and let the people who actually pay tax speak for themselves?
An actual tax payer on August 23, 2010
“I find it amusing that you claim to be protesting on behalf of the tax payer when the majority of you have most likely yet to pay a penny in tax”.
I know several people at the camp and all have full-time jobs and have been in full-time employment since leaving college/university.
cliche after cliche on August 23, 2010
What an irresponsible act to cause a potential danger to others in such a reckless way. Sorry, but you don’t rouse a social conscience by actions like that, but you do rouse anger and resentment and the Environmental movement you claim to savour only suffers as a result.
Those with “green” issues all over the country are seen as lawbreakers and destructive criminals because of what you did. Hope you are pleased.
tighthead on August 23, 2010
What a waste of time. No point even speaking to these idiots. They have only one opinion and that is theirs. They lost the argument soon as they broke the law.
the kids at the nursery have more common sense and they know what is right or wrong!
BORED NOW GO HOME < GROW UP and a GET A WASH, GET A LIFE, START PAYING TAX! NEXT TIME WHEN YOU WANT A HOLIDAY CAUSING DAMAGE DO IT ON YOUR ON BACK YARD, GO ON BE OFF WITH YOU!!!MUMMY AND DADDY will be waiting for you in the RANGE ROVER AT the airport!!!!!!!!!
You have successfully underminded your own campaign . ALL BOLLOCKS!!
ALL Bollocks on August 23, 2010
pouring oil on the road, causing criminal damage, throwing human shit on the rbs building how the hell do you expecct to win over the public with behaviour like that. you need to weed out the people who are only there to cause trouble, then people may take up your offer of visiting the camp and sitting in on a workshop. Until that time you will not be welcomed anywhere.
Cavey on August 23, 2010
Any criminality, irrespective of who(m) it is against or for whatever perceived cause it is intended to highlight is wrong. There is no debate with this.
Age of criminal responsibility is 8. We know the difference between right and wrong. Breaking windows of the nurseries, throwing excrement at police and security staff, pouring “oil – like” substances on any roadways and carrying weapons is fundamentally wrong.
Damaging the environment is also wrong.
Two wrongs do not make a right (one for cliche) and you lot need to get rid of the anarchists and criminals within your camp before anyone, anywhere, will take you seriously.
Tomorrow you will be gone. The glaziers will fix the windows, the building will get a clean and all that will remain in the minds of the UK public, and especially the local community here is you came and caused damage to our city and alarmed people trying to earn a wage to live a peaceful, happy life with their loved ones.
Are you so far removed from todays society that you cant see this?
This is your website, how many posts are here in support of your actions? Less than 3% is the answer, this is echoed nationally and internationally.
You gain nothing but negative publicity for this. The talk is not of what the oil companies are doing to the environment but of the damage you all cause in the brief time you have been here. Not a single person in this city has talked to me about your ‘crusade’ and the issues you want to highlight, they only talk of your digusting and degrading tactics vented against innocent members of the public.
You are fortunate only for one thing, that you ‘protest’ in the UK because if you carried out these disgraceful actions in any other city in the world the police would have quite rightly adopted a far harder stance. The police are soft here and adopt too much of a PC, touchy feely approach. Our legal system is internationally recognised as fundamentally flawed, we let mass murderers simply go home and jail murderers for less than 5 years in some instances to give two of a number of recent examples.
Personally after your actions the other day I would round you all up and jail you for two years apiece. That would act as a deterent to others that such ‘direct action’ will not be tolerated in this country.
Weed out the scum in your camp, protest peacefully as thousands of others do in this city annually and you will gain support and respect for your beliefs. Who knows, you may even facilitate change. The banks, oil companies, whoever your ‘beef’ is with may actually want to discuss the issues with you!
Until you do this, until you work this out, you will always be lumped together, as one previous post put it, as archarists, the great unwashed, criminals and the whole host of slurs your ‘camp’ has been called above.
I know this is a lot to take in but it makes sense. Work together, find some common ground and stop all the nonesense. You would not have seen Ghandi throwing tollies (Scottish word for poop) at the Indian authorities to prove a point and you dont need to either.
Respect for any cause has to be earned, not like this. Not like this.
Paws for thought on August 24, 2010
All this fuss because someone broke a window?? Considering what they have done (like many other banks, admittedly) I’d say RBS got off lightly.
Btw, the Suffragettes broke windows. In fact window breaking was a major part of their campaign. Without that, us women would not have got the vote.
Of course that’s different. They didn’t have democracy then, whereas now the government listens to us all…..
anarchist scum on August 24, 2010
Pingback: The Understory » Decoding RBS Greenwash
the other day a policeman came up to a group of us who were being threatened with a Section 60 Search for wanting to go back to the camp and get our belongings, and said: ‘look folks, this isn’t a democracy.’
amen.
i went to the camp on August 26, 2010